Ph Topic/story On A Driver That Got Sent To Prison

[feb 47]

I remember reading this thread in PH a couple of years ago.

 

It's when you start thinking you are a really good driver that you end up pushing too hard and something will inevitably go wrong.

The posts I think highlight the real world consequences for everyone for a bit of fun and fantasy.

 

+1

Especially true when you are young and have not got much experience.

[Batfink 201]

I think back to what I did in the first years of driving and cringe. I dont know how I got away with the things i was doing despite a few scars

[Baz 421]

It's when you start thinking you are a really good driver that you end up pushing too hard and something will inevitably go wrong.

 

Even if you ARE truely a really good driver you should never think like that as no-one knows what's round the next corner or that the road conditions/grip levels etc haven't changed...

 

We all take chances here and there and unfortunately it could happen to anyone.

[Bigtimmy 1]

This is exactly why I have built a track car and exactly why I don't have a motorbike.

 

Driving on the road is not to be taken lightly, although we all take it for granted.

 

Every road user be it fred on his pushbike, john on his motorbike or me in one of my vehicles has a duty of care to other road users.

 

I have realised over the last few years that I'm not Jason Plato or Jenson Button, and you physically cannot drive like that on the road and stay alive for any length of time. I get my kicks on the track now where I'm probably not going to involve anyone else if I bin it.

 

I'll tell you another thing, driving on the track has really sharpened up my road driving skills as well.

 

Stay safe kids, it's a jungle out there!

[maturin23 10]

I think back to what I did in the first years of driving and cringe. I dont know how I got away with the things i was doing despite a few scars

 

Christ - I know that feeling.

 

I was remembering the 'old days' with my best pal earlier this summer - we used to race back from the White Hart at Littleton-upon-Severn back to school after a couple of lunchtime pints in the sun,me in a Chevette, him in Mini 1275 GT. Overtaking round blind bends, going the wrong way round islands; it all makes my guts turn over now.

[Stevo309 0]

It's a sobering and thought provoking read that has certainly made me think. Like most I have done things that could easily have ended that way.

 

It does worry me though how there are so many videos of drifting on public roads on YouTube. It take seconds to find endless hours of mindless crazy driving on roads and this only serves to make people think they too can do it. I know it's an aside but they remove gun movies etc from such websites.

[Moby 0]

Wow, wot a rivetting read , certainly makes me think again to overtake that silly slow driver doing your head in driving at 30mph on B roads I will remember 10pence worth .

[mainline 2 1 Cars]

Very interesting read, and nice to see someone dispelling the myth that prison is an easy option, full of playstations and plasma TVs and free food. One of the things that really annoys me is know-it-all internet posters with no experience of prison or the English legal system telling us all 'how it is'.

 

And yeah it does make you think about your driving style on public roads. Makes me think that a track-day focus for the 205 might be the way forward.

[Batfink 201]

Even if you ARE truely a really good driver you should never think like that as no-one knows what's round the next corner or that the road conditions/grip levels etc haven't changed...

 

We all take chances here and there and unfortunately it could happen to anyone.

 

Its all about attitude. I occasionally drive fast on the road, but I drive within the limits of me and the car and always am conscious of both mine and other road users mortality. Good risk assessment stops rash decisions.

I would never say I was a good driver either - its a bad attitude to adopt, but the opposite of the scale is just as bad. I dont go out fearing the what ifs..

[Cameron 16]

Very sobering read..

 

..I'll think twice next time I'm in the car.

 

I wonder just how "sobering" it was for these people and whether a day or so after reading it they had changed their driving style, or whether they went back to driving like arses as soon as they'd forgotten about it.

 

I've been reading that thread in dribs and drabs since this popped up and it's really irritated me. The guy paints a very good picture of how hard his life has been since the accident and everyone seems to be lapping it up. I'm sure his life has been tough, and I almost felt sorry for him until I read this:

 

What the biker said..

 

After the accident I now suffer with continuous pain with the nerves from my paralysed right hand and arm which used to be my dominant side

 

I have been prescribed four different types of pills to be taken four times a day without fail to try and ease the pain these help to a certain extent until temperature changes moving from one room to another going outside is the most excrutiating pain imaginable I can only describe it as holding my hand and arm in boiling cooking oil. This pain is as constant as breathing in and out it wears me down to the point where I have to ease the pain by taking morphine unwillingly but necessary.

 

I am now unable to do the most mundane jobs from washing myself even tying shoe laces is impossible driving to the shops is a thing of the past.

 

The last four years my partner and I have owned a caravan in the Lake District our escape from the hustle and bustle of everyday life we travelled on motorcycles which has been a lifetime involvement this route we have travelled for years and treat this particular route with respect. The day our life's changed we were on our way to the lakes.

 

I woke up in intensive care with my partner by my side apparently I was hit by a car travelling on the wrong side of the road my partner was seconds behind and seen me in the middle of the road lying unconscious ever since then my partner has been reliving the shocking experience over again every night.

 

If it hadn't been for the luck of two motorcyclists one knowing first aid the paramedics, police, air ambulance, trauma team and everyone involved my partner and I will be eternally grateful but take one link out of the chain of Samritans I would not be living today.

 

The offshore career which I've had for the last 13 years was abruptly stopped and will never continue due to the loss of my right arm which was explained to me by the surgeon he also said forget the person you used to be you will never be like that again. It was only a few years before in cases like mine the arm would have been amputated.

 

My whole world has been turned upside down I used to repair all kinds of machinery in the oil industry looking after multi million pounds worth of engines and equipment now I cannot even fasten my own laces. I am also having to write with my left hand the simple task of putting my watch on and off cannot be done without help am at a loss at the prospect of my future employment.

 

I used to be physically fit running eight kilometres in between weight training every other day the paramedic at the scene commented that if it had not been for my muscle mass and fitness it may have been a different outcome my muscle took the impact from my internal organs which helped to save my life.

 

Two decades of lifting weights and physical fitness which missing a day made me feel guilty now I struggle to walk even small distances without having to put my arm around my partner for support, now my partner has the burdon of trying to be my right arm as well as looking after two children.

 

Since leaving the hospital after the initial accident I have had nerve transfer operations one involving a nine and a half hour operation in theatre leaving me with skin grafts and scars from the neck downwards and will be having more in the future. I have been fortunate in one way that double vision which occured during the impact to my head has nearly returned to normal this gave me a break from more surgery which the eye specialist had planned.

 

The second operation with the renowned Professor Kay of St James hospital in Leeds who has given me the chance to move my hand and arm if everything goes to plan if not more operations will have to be undertaken.

 

My every day life has changed dramatically I wake up in the morning still thinking I have the use of my right hand and arm until I try to move, then the realisation of what happened has to be accepted all over again. Washing myself is not a task I can do alone a bath has to be planned in advance.

 

Due to the sever impact to my head my memory has been affected both long and short terms for example not recognising the police officer heading the case after meeting him previously, my partner stepped in to save my embarrassment reminding me, this happens a lot with friends hospital staff who know me but I can't seem to place them. I also repeat myself a lot ask the same questions over a space of time its not until this is pointed out to me that I become aware of this. I think it is fair to say this is a tiny example of how this accident has impacted on my life it is not the life I had prior and to be honest my life was pretty good. This is an ongoing battle which some days I seem to be losing others I get through this is not what I thought I would be like at the age of 42, the worst and hardest thing of all is I was going about my own business and someone else's action has devastated my whole future.

 

Every day is becoming mentally harder and harder as the realisation of what happened slowly sinks in and the thought of the rest of my life trying to cope with the dragging around a useless lump of flesh and bone that just hangs off my body

[Batfink 201]

The whole thread was not about giving the car driver sympathy over the motorcyclist. The car driver was simply pointing out that prison is not a jolly but people wanted to hear his story. I think it goes a long way in showing the guilt the guy will feel for the rest of his life knowing the mess he left the other guy in and how one act can have major consequence's for many people for the rest of their lives. He is not asking for anyones sympathy anyway.

Not trying to belittle the damage he has caused but wounds will heal to some extent. I had a minor operation and it took 5 years before I could move my wrist fully so recovery is often long. Certainly I have mashed my face into a dashboard in an accident and had similar memory problems - mine being I could not remember words that I wanted to say in conversation but it got better with time. His wounds are severe but I hope with time the problems will alleviate. Look at what some of our servicemen have survived in Afghanistan and what some of them are doing now. I would find it very difficult knowing i had crippled someone thats for sure.....

[Stevo309 0]

I agree with Batfink, i haven't by any means read the whole thing but a few days after i'm still thinking about it and find myself telling people about it. If only one person adjusts their driving as a result of reading it then that's a good thing. I think it's a good thing the driver chose to articulate his feelings in this way. A moment in his life has changed his lives and those of the riders and families forever and by describing exactly what happened and the emotions involved it illustrates the scenario in a way not often seen.

 

We see crashes in films all the time, on documentaries, police chases on TV or even wreckage at the roadside but we rarely get an insight in this way from both the person responsible and the victim. I actually feel sympathy for both sides and i don't think anyone who reads it needs to take sides anyway. I'm sure everyone involved would happily rewind and avoid that accident from happening in the first place.

[Anthony 1,003]

I wonder just how "sobering" it was for these people and whether a day or so after reading it they had changed their driving style, or whether they went back to driving like arses as soon as they'd forgotten about it.

To an extent, certainly for me, it has done, but perhaps in the way that you'd imagine - the concious change for me is that I am far more aware of how my driving as viewed by others could come back to bite me, despite having likely done nothing wrong or illegal. In his example from memory, a safe overtake he'd done earlier in the day was used as part of the evidence against him, as the person he'd overtaken believed he was speeding and had said that he'd overtaken on (or coming into) a blind bend.

 

Had there been no damning witness testimonies and dare I say had he been driving a "normal" car, would he have gone to jail for the accident?

 

My personal opinion is that no he wouldn't. THAT is what has has changed my viewpoint, and to an extent, the way I drive.

 

I've been reading that thread in dribs and drabs since this popped up and it's really irritated me. The guy paints a very good picture of how hard his life has been since the accident and everyone seems to be lapping it up. I'm sure his life has been tough, and I almost felt sorry for him until I read this:

Whilst I of course have great sympathy for the biker and how his life has changed beyond all recognition because someone else lost control of their car, I personally believe that potentially a small portion of the blame for the accident, and certainly for the severity of the injuries received lies with the biker.

 

After all - would there have been an accident at all, and if there was, would the injuries sustained been anything like as bad, had the biker been driving a car and in a way that meant he was able to stop in the distance that he could see to be clear (accident occured on a blind bend, although it's not clear whether the Integra was stopped or still sliding having scrubbed off most of its speed at the point of impact)?

 

Our choices in life involve varying degrees of risk, and the risks of choosing to ride a motorcycle and alarming KSI statistics from accidents involving motorbikes are well known. Whilst I love the idea of a motorbike, I personally will not ride one as I personally cannot justify the risks of injury and impairment owing to the complete lack of protection offered in the event of an accident, regardless of fault. Whilst no one can say that he would have walked away without a scratch had he been in a modern car, it is almost certain that he would not have suffered the sort of injuries that he did. He chose to accept the risk, and now, harshly, is going to have to live with the results of that choice for the rest of his life.

 

I have sympathies for 10PS as well, in a different way - it was an accident that any of us could have had, for any number of reasons, and his life changed forever because of it. He might not have the physical injuries of the biker, but he'll forever have the guilt and stigma for what was, after all, an unfortunate accident.

 

I suspect that I'll probably need to don my flame suit for that opinion...

[Cameron 16]

I don't know.. my opinion is incredibly mixed on this. On one hand I think he's brave for openly admitting to what he's done and commend him for painting a picture that doesn't glamourise the situation or try and make out that he's innocent, and that he's done it with the intention of making people think twice about their driving on the public roads rather than to make people feel sorry for him; and on the other I'm irritated that he's bleating about his "suffering" when it doesn't even compare to that of the innocent man who's life he ruined.

 

Imagine if you were one of those people who he'd overtaken.. you're driving home from work (or similar situation) and a group of modified cars came up behind you and started overtaking, only for one of them to lose control further down the road and cause a horrific accident. Tell me honestly, would you be sticking up for the boy racer or the biker? Or would you, like me, be telling the police that he was driving too fast and subsequently lost control? I mean there's absolutely no denying that his driving caused the accident. He knew the road well, so you can't blame it on adverse conditions or unexpected bends / traffic, he was simply driving too fast to remain in control of the vehicle and that frankly appalls me.

 

I think I can see the point you're making in the second half of your post Anthony, although it may not be as clear to others.. The biker knows the risk of riding on the road with modern traffic and driving standards and so he is doing so at his own risk to a certain extent. But I don't believe he can accept any portion of the blame for this. If he were in a car then his injuries may not have been so bad but he still wouldn't have been able to avoid an accident. You can't go around apportioning blame to bikers because they "should have been driving a car", that's just plain wrong.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Cameron

[GLPoomobile 958]

Like Anthony, the thing that hits home for me is how my driving is perceived by others if something goes wrong.

 

In the UK we are constantly treated like criminals by other drivers if we dare to overtake. Now add in to the equation a loud hot hatch, and that critical driver you just overtook will percieve you as a dangerous boy racer. Then add in the fact that (for me at least) you probably just floored it to get past as quickly as possible (minimise the time exposed to danger), and so probably did exceed the speed limit for a brief moment, and the evidence all stacks up against you. The reality for most of us, is that you were frustrated by a dawdling driver ahead, choose a safe moment, and then went past them as quickly as you could. But god forbid you you crash 30 seconds later, and that driver you just overtook will be testifying to your "dangerous" driving.

 

If 10pence had been a middle aged man driving a Mondeo, and he hadn't overtaken anyone, but had the same accident, would he have still been prosecuted? If he had said "I don't know what happened. I was travelling within the speed limit but the corner sharpened and took me off gaurd and I lost control", would he have been prosecuted?

 

I'm not saying he's innocent, but so much of the case against him seems unfair, and he was made an example of. If (and that's the key word - IF) he caused that accident by genuine dangerous driving and excess speed, then he deserved to be have the book thrown at him. It's the way they've proven dangerous driving that I don't agree with in that case. And I think if it happened to him it could happen to any of us. Accidents are accidents, they aren't expected, so be careful of how your actions may be percieved just in case you in end up in the unexpected.

[Batfink 201]

I mean there's absolutely no denying that his driving caused the accident. He knew the road well, so you can't blame it on adverse conditions or unexpected bends / traffic, he was simply driving too fast to remain in control of the vehicle and that frankly appalls me.

 

Please dont feel this as an attack, but have you ever crashed a car? You may be one of the lucky ones not to, but having lost control of a vehicle at speed, and been a passenger in another that did i feel unable to be so upset when it happens to someone else. Both times I walked away with a greater respect for aspects of driving that I would not have if the incident did not occur. Lucky for me everyone walked away more or less. Looking back at the skills we learn to pass our tests its inevitable these events will happen and I would encourage any new drivers I know to do more to gain an awareness of actions and consequences but also some driver skill to enable them to react the right way should they loose control. Anthony is right in you have to be careful with how your driving attitude is portrayed to others. I will give an example...

 

I was driving down a straight A road at night and an ambulance on blues and twos was coming the other way. The opposite carriageway was clear so the ambulance was unimpeded. The car in front of me braked and slowed significantly as the ambulance passed. I did not slow but indicated, pulled out and overtook the car as I caught the car up as the ambulance passed me. It was not a risky or sudden or dangerous in any way.

It was an instinctive manoeuvre and I would do it again without a second thought. But I was tooted at and flashed by the other driver. He thought I was reckless but in my view he was an idiot..

[Anthony 1,003]

Imagine if you were one of those people who he'd overtaken.. you're driving home from work (or similar situation) and a group of modified cars came up behind you and started overtaking, only for one of them to lose control further down the road and cause a horrific accident. Tell me honestly, would you be sticking up for the boy racer or the biker? Or would you, like me, be telling the police that he was driving too fast and subsequently lost control?

I would tell it as it was. Had he made a safe, considerate overtake and all I had witnessed was good driving, then that is exactly what I would say. Had he made a reckless, ill-considered overtake and/or shown driving which I felt fell short of what was expected, then again, that is exactly what I would say. Unless I saw the accident between the car and biker, I wouldn't be in a position to comment on that at all - only the driving I had witnessed beforehand.

 

The way your question is written suggests to me that you, like many (most?) are almost saying that they're guilty by default by the fact that they're driving modified cars and are overtaking. That, unfortuntately, is one of the factors that sealed his fate - as I said above and GLP mentioned, had he been driving a humble normal car and hadn't overtaken previously, would he have been treated in the same way?

 

That is the realisation that has hit home, even though, deep down, I already knew that to be the case.

 

I think I can see the point you're making in the second half of your post Anthony, although it may not be as clear to others.. The biker knows the risk of riding on the road with modern traffic and driving standards and so he is doing so at his own risk to a certain extent. But I don't believe he can accept any portion of the blame for this. If he were in a car then his injuries may not have been so bad but he still wouldn't have been able to avoid an accident. You can't go around apportioning blame to bikers because they "should have been driving a car", that's just plain wrong.

Blame is perhaps the wrong word, but there is in my eyes he does bear some responsibility for the extent of his injuries owing to his choice to ride a motorbike. I'm sure that he now questions now whether that choice was worth it everyday his suffers pain, helplessness and ponders "what if?"

 

A different example of the point I'm trying to make - someone openly wears an expensive Rolex watch and flaunts it to all and sundry, and later that night gets mugged for said watch whilst walking back through a rough part of town. The person who mugged him was acting illegally and has done wrong, but in my eyes, the victim is partly responsible for being mugged owing to their choice to flaunt the expensive watch and to walk home at night through a rough part of town.

[GLPoomobile 958]

the victim is partly responsible for being mugged owing to their choice to flaunt the expensive watch and to walk home at night through a rough part of town.

 

Ooooooo, Anthony! Treading a fine line there, I fear It sounds to me a bit like the old chestnut of scantily clad girls who get raped were "asking for it"

[Batfink 201]

I think the motorcyclists only responsibility was to ride at a speed round the blind bend that would allow him to manoeuvre, slow down or stop. There is a question mark over the speed he was going too, but it may have only been able to lessen his injuries a little rather than avoid the accident totally. Only one person will know that. Some motorcyclists forget that they are far more squishy than a car and their own riding is key to avoiding dumbarse car owners in their little bubbles of steel. I personally will not ride a bike because of other drivers as I prefer the relative safety of a car (though a 106 is certainly not strong or safe)

[Anthony 1,003]

Ooooooo, Anthony! Treading a fine line there, I fear It sounds to me a bit like the old chestnut of scantily clad girls who get raped were "asking for it"

I deliberately didn't choose that example

[Stevo309 0]

Surely we could speculate who was at fault all day though?

 

When i was 18 and had been driving only 18 months or so when I crashed my first car horribly. On a normal winter morning i was doing 60 mph down my usual B road to college listening to Haddaway or Black Box (Yes i am that old) on my Goodmans speakers with the heater on and enjoying dry roads. The next moment the car was turning over and over, full of broken glass, petrol, stones etc, my hair matted with dirt and blood. I had lost control on a left hand bend due to hitting some ice. The back end stepped out, i over corrected it and just couldn't hold the car from going off the right hand side of the road and into a ditch. At this speed the impact caused the car to nose in, kart wheel several times and come to a rest upside down with the entire roof collapsed apart from where i was sitting. Having lost control on a blind bend and crossing the road like that i would have hit anything coming the other way head on with distasterous consequences. The momentum and energy was astonishing and the tailgate was 30 metres up the road. A feeling of panic came over me when i realised i had to try and exit a crushed car with petrol dripping into the roof lining as it was all upside down. I was travelling alone and nobody was hurt including myself luckily. That was of course a life changing moment for me.

 

We are all guilty from time to time of not driving safely for the conditions or our own skills and sometimes you get away with it and sometimes you don't depending on luck. I got away with it on that occasion.

 

I can't imagine how this guy lost control of the car yet managed to scrub off enough speed to nearly be stationary at the time of impact? If he was really travelling fast and lost control the skid marks would be all over the place and tell the story. I don't think we can judge him without the facts although you would like to think the accident investigators would have worked it out. He does appear to have been made an example of though.

 

It's a great debate though and my opinion is very divided on it.

[jackherer 543]

The point about how others view your driving is a very important one and something that I was lucky to have been told about in no uncertain terms as soon as I got my license. These days your old forum posts seem to hold a lot of weight too, which a lot of people on here (and elsewhere) don't seem to be aware of. And I suspect using the term 'private road' makes it worse if anything.

[AJA_GTi 0]

I've been reading for hours now... Does he get bummed or not??

[Batfink 201]

Surely we could speculate who was at fault all day though?

 

It does not really matter except to the people directly involved. The end result was what happened and no debate or apportion of blame will change the past.

[JRL 14 1 Cars]

I feel bad for the motorcyclist because he had to write about how his life has changed because everyone got so caught up reading about the drivers emotions. I cant help but feel the driver is a bit of an attention seeker.