[engine_work] Project Pugwash - 2.0l Turbo Conversion 205 Gti

[mannings 1]

Firstly hello to all. Been scanning through the pages of the forum for a few months now stocking up on the all the information available and has been very helpful to help me along with this project, so thanks for much.

 

Previously completed a 2.0l conversion on my beloved MKII golf, pic below. But alas she is gone and a new project was required.

 

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac235/m...26092009121.jpg

 

A friend from work was half way through a 2.0l turbo conversion on a 205 putting a 406 lump in. His project stalled as other items came up so me and another mate decided to take it on ourselves. A first for both of us so should be interesting but he and his brother have had a long relationship with the 205 and we have a garage full of odds and sods to pick through for bits which really helps.

 

So we started off with a pretty mint 205 1.9 Gti that has sat for a few years, great interior, solid body, perfect for what we needed. The idea for project pugwash is a completely standard looking 205 with a monster engine, stealth.

We do the run down to Le Mans 24 hour every year and am looking forward to destroying some unsuspecting people in their very expensive super cars by our little £500 pug. So that also sets a time limit on completion of the project, June 2011, or before if all goes well.

 

So the car:

 

 

The part of the conversion completed previous to us was engine delivered and dropped in with custom engine mounts, gear linkage sorted, custom exhaust system in (but to be replaced). See below engine in:

 

 

We got the car flat bedded across and into its new home:

 

 

So first things first wanted to concentrate on getting the intercooler and rad arrangement sorted out. So stripped the front so we could see what was going on:

 

 

Our plan was to have the cosworth 4x4 IC where the grill was and to drop the rad down to give us the space. One problem was the engine sump was very close to the front cross member so we couldn't fit the rad. So the solution, we cut it off, simples!

 

 

So with that gone we set about mounting the rad 5 inchs lower and pushed back behind the cross member, going to have to work on the cooling fan issue later and no longer fit, but seen people us slim ones so that should do:

 

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac235/m...21082010499.jpg

 

Then looked at connecting the lower rad hose to the oil cooler cooler jacket and rear engine input using the 406 pipe (I think!), however was a bit longer given the reduced distance between rad and input and a bit of a bitch, but worked it out with some bendy piping!! Didn't manage to get the oil linked yesterday, save that for next week.

 

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac235/m...21082010500.jpg

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac235/m...21082010501.jpg

 

Next was mounting the intercooler where we wanted it which worked out very well and like how it looks. Also gives us just enough room to take the standard boost piping that comes across the rocker cover from the turbo. Also we can just get the intercooler outlet into the throttle body:

 

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac235/m...21082010502.jpg

 

 

 

So the first jobs done for this weekend and pretty happy with progress:

 

http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac235/m...21082010503.jpg

 

Moving forward with plans for the project we are looking at the following jobs:

 

- Complete engine cooling, piping, wiring, etc and get running (of course)

- Fit full magnex system already got waiting

- Big brake conversion from old hubs ready to go with new drive shafts and CV's

- Auto bonnet to be cleaned up and used to make room for the 406 boost piping

- Close ratio steering rack already got

- Front Strut brace already got

- Re-condition speedlines and fit with Toyo R888's

- Map boost up to 1 bar as believe this is what the standard ECU can run with (more info needed as not sure about that one)

- Phase 2 rear lights got already & need to find the red reflective rear panel, love that look

 

Reckon once we are at this stage will be looking pretty damn good and going on all accounts a monster out on the road / track.

 

Will try to keep the updates and pics coming as we go.

 

Thanks for reading and any future help that i'm sure to be needing.

Edited August 22, 2010 by mannings

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

Hello and welcome. The 205 looks like a nice example, just need to get some plasticare on the trim You made fitting the intercooler look easy, my hair went grey trying to fit mine

 

Good luck with the project, look forward to more updates,

 

Dave.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Nice write up. Will follow this and look forward to your updates.

 

Best of luck.

[mannings 1]

Just thought I would add on the little progress that we made during last nights efforts. Now that we had the rad in place wanted to then concentrate on the coolant system. We had added the bottom pipe that is the rad lower outlet to rear engine input however the bend radius on the pipe wasn't great, so we chopped down the pipe and re-fitted and looks a lot better now, also clears the crank pulley which is nice.

 

We also managed to get the outlet from the oil cooler pipe from the oil jacket to the 406 split pipe, see pic:

 

 

We also got the outlet from the thermostat turned around so it enters the top of the 205 rad. Used a copper pipe 90 degree bend but not 100% happy so may tidy up, but the concept has worked for spinning it round to meet the upper rad input, so was pleased:

 

 

Put the expansion tank in place and linked the little rad overflow pipe from across the engine bay. Then linked the rear outlet from the rear of engine through to the heater matrix input:

 

 

Finally and the bit that was a bit of a headache we ran a return pipe from the heater matrix back the thermostat, which was all good.

But then realised we had no input for filling the system from the exp tank and in turn the water expanding back up the pipe in to the tank. I have a few different diagrams from this site but they did not explain the set up I could see so we improvised and put t junction in between the heater matrix output and thermostat, if anyone has any reasons this wonit work please comment, but seemed to make sense to us. See pics:

 

 

That pretty much completes the coolant system apart from one link from the top of the expansion tank to the top of the thermostat housing (or thats what we presume as nowhere else for it to join onto).

 

Next we are planning to look at the boost piping this weekend and maybe some of the vacuum system. If anyone knows the location of any good diagrams please drop the links down and we'll take a look.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

That will not work that well, the gravity feed from the exp tank needs to go in the suction side of the pump, so into the water housing on the back of the block.

[mannings 1]

That will not work that well, the gravity feed from the exp tank needs to go in the suction side of the pump, so into the water housing on the back of the block.

Sorry can you confirm some details for me, still getting to grips with this engine. The water pump is I assume at the rear of the engine where the inlet comes from the rad plus oil cooler in our instance. So to be before the pump wouldn't the intake need to be into the larger pipe before the water pump, if that is what you are suggesting. Or have I got the wrong location of the water pump???

[mannings 1]

Sorry can you confirm some details for me, still getting to grips with this engine. The water pump is I assume at the rear of the engine where the inlet comes from the rad plus oil cooler in our instance. So to be before the pump wouldn't the intake need to be into the larger pipe before the water pump, if that is what you are suggesting. Or have I got the wrong location of the water pump???

 

I see what I have done now, i've taken the exp tank input as the water pump output and put it through the heater matrix. Just found a diagram on 'daviewonders' conversion that explains it, will give it a swap around friday and see where we end up with.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I'd also consider simplifying your plumbing and losing the water-oil heat exchanger. Not really needed for road use with even occasional track use.

 

1.6 GTIs don't have them, nor do I on a 2.2 Mi on bodies. Maybe turbos are different and I'm talking out of my proverbial, but I'm sure it'd be OK.

[Masekwm 2]

That will not work that well, the gravity feed from the exp tank needs to go in the suction side of the pump, so into the water housing on the back of the block.

 

Doh! I guess thats the same on the GTi6? I've plumbed mine wrong?

[mannings 1]

I'd also consider simplifying your plumbing and losing the water-oil heat exchanger. Not really needed for road use with even occasional track use.

 

1.6 GTIs don't have them, nor do I on a 2.2 Mi on bodies. Maybe turbos are different and I'm talking out of my proverbial, but I'm sure it'd be OK.

To be honest the oil cooler is rather simple to plumb in as it already comes with the engine all linked up, so all we had to do with link to the lower return pipe which we have done.

 

The confusing thing at the moment is I have no idea where the hot water outlet into the heater matrix comes from, any ideas. Daviewonders' diagram shows it striaght out the block but couldn't see anything like that yesterday when under it, more investigation needed

[mannings 1]

diagram from daviewonder

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

 

 

Red lines are hot water going to the radiator

Blue lines are cool water coming back from the radiator

Green lines are small self bleed lines which help remove any air from the system back to the expansion bottle

Yellow line is the gravity feed from the expansion tank which allows the system to bleed and also expansion.

[mannings 1]

Red lines are hot water going to the radiator

Blue lines are cool water coming back from the radiator

Green lines are small self bleed lines which help remove any air from the system back to the expansion bottle

Yellow line is the gravity feed from the expansion tank which allows the system to bleed and also expansion.

 

Thanks for the help Tom, only problem is I'm not sure this is for the 406 turbo lump I have.

There is a seperarte turbo outlet that comes around the engine over the thermostat and enters the main hot feed into the radiator at the complicated three way split junction that also feeds the oil cooler.

There is also a smaller line that routes round from the turbo, under the thermostat and direct into the block beneath where the main boost pipe would be. Furthermore we have the oil cooler routing also. Is it possible we have a later or different version engine as not seen a diagram yet on the forum that has all the piping that we seem to have??? Is this because we don't need to all maybe, or in fact because of different engine type (thinking XM, 406, etc)

Cheers

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

Heres a slightly clearer version, my old diagram didn't clearly show where the metal pipe that goes from the distribution block to the matrix went.

 

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

It's not a oil cooler, A heat exchanger, same as fitted to some Golfs

[mannings 1]

Heres a slightly clearer version, my old diagram didn't clearly show where the metal pipe that goes from the distribution block to the matrix went.

Yeah that makes more sense to what I saw last night.

 

Don't suppose you've got a similar diagram for the vacuum system have you?? Started trying to work it out last night, getting there but many pipes to understand!!!

[jonathan205 0]

love a bit of home made turbo madness!

[mannings 1]

Update from yesterdays work. Got to grips with the Air ducting and managed to fit the original air intake pipe next to the boost pipe past the brake servo which makes life easier.

 

So going to use the standard inlet piping but will be modifying in the future as doesn't allow for the strut brace we want to fit, bur for now will do. Also as we have the Auto bonnet for this we will use the standard ali boost pipe as well. Spent a bit of time plugging in pipes, etc and seeing what needed to go where and managed to find a home for most of the many pipes.

 

So as you can see all looks in line.

Got the turbo sorted as well once I found the lower intake elbow

 

Also looked at the fuel set up and moved the old 205 fuel filter away from the turbo and to the off side wing behind the headlight, so we don't blow up in the future!! And linked the feed in and return to the injector rail

 

Have a couple of confusing points though, our coolant system seems to be different to others around this site that have used the engine we presume we have, either that or I'm retarded, which is quite possible!

I took daviewonders diagram and tried to work the plumbing around that but it doesn't work with our lump. There is only 3 input/output's from the water pump (back of engine assy). One of these is the input from the rad, the next is the output from the pump into the turbo and the only other is the metal pipe that I have attached to the heater matrix.

 

See pics

 

So as my water pump on has 3 I/O's and two are fixed for rad and turbo I then have to use the metal pipe for the heater matrix otherwise there is no way of getting the water into the heater matrix??? So to solve this little dilema we are going to take the expansion tank line from the infront of the rad and keep the heater matrix coming straight from the water pump. But our thinking is that as the entry point to the rad is the closest we can get to the inlet of the water pump without massive water pipe going past very busy and soon to be hot turbo area, which isn't ideal. If anyone has any better ideas let me know but think this will work.

 

The second question was couldn't work out what this bit was for, see me holding a pipe that comes from the front of the throttle body on the right hand side of the idle valve input. Looks like a vacuum pipe but has no home, anyone know where is should link into as am lost, is it something to do with this fuel line vacum surge soleniod canister thingy??? And do I need this as not really got the room for it ???

 

 

Gonna be cracking on on Monday and hope to mount new fan assembly. Think we are about ready to complete the boost pipes once purchased and then look at the wiring and firing. Project is going quicker than had expected and thoroughly enjoying it so far, crazy plans of mid engine mounted rear wheel driven 3.0 V6 205's are now starting to appear, hmmm, one thing at a time!!!

 

Thanks in advance for any help

Edited August 28, 2010 by mannings

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

Mate I'm sorry it was me being retarded, that pic was the way I had planned it using a different distribution block

 

I'm really sorry for the confusion, heres the REAL diagram-

 

 

I made up the T piece using copper pipes from a plumming merchant.

 

I'm sure that pipe in the other pic is for the purge canister but don't take it as gospel, I have a really awful memory due to doing lots of stuff that I shouldn't have done when I was younger

 

On the plus side it looks like its comming on really well mate.

[mannings 1]

Memories, eh, not all there cracked up to be anyways as I hear it!!

 

Ah wicked, turns out we have currently got a T piece exactly where you did, but people have said that the expansion tank input needs to be pre-water pump. Did your one not have an issue with being T'd like that? as would make life a whole lot easier is could leave as is.

 

Cheers mate, is going well, thoroughly enjoying myself!! Now to more important stuff, beer and a BBQ

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

From looking at several other pictures of 2.0 turbo cooling systems I can see some people have fitted the T piece in the heater Matrix 'in' pipe where as mine is fitted into the heater matrix 'out' pipe, these are both on the same side of the water pump. I'm not sure if this would make a difference to anything? I've run mine up several times and it seems ok.

[GLPoomobile 958]

 

 

Red lines are hot water going to the radiator

Blue lines are cool water coming back from the radiator

Green lines are small self bleed lines which help remove any air from the system back to the expansion bottle

Yellow line is the gravity feed from the expansion tank which allows the system to bleed and also expansion.

 

I'm being pedantic Tom, but surely both heater matrix pipes should be red How can you have cold on one side and hot on the other side of the matrix (excluding the cooling effect when you've got the interior fans blowing full)?

 

EDIT: I'm being thick. Your just illustrating the flow more simply, and it is correct. The blue going in to the matrix isn't 'cold', it's just not at full engine temp.

Edited August 28, 2010 by GLPoomobile

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

The blue is coming back from the matrix, via the rear dist housing, to be picked up by the inlet side of the waterpump and to pass over the block again. Even if the fans are off there is still some heat lost as the coolant goes through the matrix.

 

Imagine the thermostat housing end at "high" pressure from the pump effect. Thus the water flow is from there both to the rad and heater matrix. Therefore the water gravity head feed wants to go into the suction side of the pump, so as shown, on the distribution housing.

[mannings 1]

The blue is coming back from the matrix, via the rear dist housing, to be picked up by the inlet side of the waterpump and to pass over the block again. Even if the fans are off there is still some heat lost as the coolant goes through the matrix.

 

Imagine the thermostat housing end at "high" pressure from the pump effect. Thus the water flow is from there both to the rad and heater matrix. Therefore the water gravity head feed wants to go into the suction side of the pump, so as shown, on the distribution housing.

Ah thought thought it was the other way round than that, but it makes sense that the hot water that has gone through the engine then comes from the thermostat is taken through the heater matrix then down into the inlet side of the water pump.

 

Think going to leave the expansion T in at the heater inlet pipe as we have it, and see what happens!!!!

 

Only thing though Tom is your diagram isn't for me engine as mine is a turbo lump but think your diagram is for something different however it has helped me to think about the flow of the water so thanks for that.

[mannings 1]

Right thought would give a little update on the project pugwash.

 

Since last time have finally decided to leave the expansion tank hose joining into the heater matrix inlet pipe. Will see how this works out, not hard to change so will have a look once running.

 

So in attempts to avoid the wiring for as long as possible we decided to fit the big brake conversion and drive shafts from Sam's old 205 STDT. These already have a big brake conversion to the 306 gti6 brakes and calipers with braided hoses. As you can see a little bigger than the standard so should help it stop a bit better:

 

 

Due to recent install of lower springs all the relevant bolts were nice and easy, so went on easily:

 

 

And the other side went on nicely too, however did this side on my own which was a first and rather tough, getting drive-shaft engaged whilst trying to hold hub in place was a right B*****d:

 

 

Only problem was the brake pipe couplings were completely rusted solid, tried and tried with WD40, heatgun, blow torch and even snapped a set of my dad's special brake line split spanner, but not no avail. So cut them off, in the end. Thinking about it though a new set of brake line for the front isn't that bad a thing, they were pretty corroded so not something you want failing on you:

 

 

Finally yesterday "found!!" some sheet metal and decided to mount the ECU by building a box for the battery. Will at some point make a cold air box for the air filter as well but not sorted the boost pipe to intercooler yet and pretty busy round there so will sort later. Box went well with only minimal lacerations so jobs a gooden!! Looks like we the plug will stretch over from original side of the engine, but may need to lengthen some connector wires:

 

 

So just ordered some braided fuel lines so route that, then need to replace the brake lines, run boost piping and then we are pretty much at the wiring stage.