205 Vague Steering

[Stevo309 0]

Hi all,

 

Have searched the older topics but can't find an answer to this one! I've recently purchased a 1991 205 1.9 (97k mileage) without sunroof and without power steering in white which is my dream car! The master plan involves stripping it to the shell and completely restoring but for now i'm concentrating on getting it handling and running right.

 

The problem I have is that to me the steering doesn't feel completely right. At first the car felt very sloppy and nervous and felt like it would oversteer very easily, i found that the tyres were inflated to 40psi! Lowering them to the correct 28 psi has helped a lot. I have just changed the lower steering column shaft and UJ (New one from Peugeot) and installed a new rack from GSF and track rod ends. The car when i bought it also already has almost new Bilstein Black dampers, Avo -40mm front springs, new top mounts brand new wishbone bushes front and rear, new anti-rollbar bushes. I have inspected the drop links, outer wishbone joints etc and can find no play anywhere. I can't really see what else to change but the car doesn't feel right to me.

 

The dilemna is whether i need to carry on spending money or whether the problem is in my head! The faster you go the better the car feels, there's no shortage of feedback or grip yet at lower speeds around town you can turn the steering wheel left and right quickly 90 degrees either way and the car doesn't react as i would expect, it feels loose (lazy). Once you're into a turn like a roundabout and the steering is well off centre it does feel better. Sorry for the length of this post and thanks for reading this far! I have never owned a 205 before so maybe i'm expecting something that isn't possible but i had a 309 gti for many years and it aways felt very tight, crisp and direct, i also currently own a 306 GTI-6 (T16) with KW suspension and it feels very direct and precise, like a go-kart and at the moment much more involving that the 205. I'm hoping to get the 205 as near factory standard as possible so a direct comparison with the 306 isn't totally fair but i'm thinking a factory 204 gti shoudl feel better than it does.

 

I should mention that i'm suspecting the tyres at the moment, they are brand new 195/50/15 Toyo T1-Rs and i wonder if this is a result of a lot of side wall flex as the car changes direction? Once the car is leaning onto the tyres further into a bend it wouldn't show up so much?

 

Thanks in advance for any assistance.

[jimistdt 1]

You've done a lot and been looking in the right place as far as I can tell, but one thing you haven't mentioned is whether you've had the tracking checked out or not? this can make a massive difference to how the car feels.

 

Good luck and welcome to the forum.

[Tom Fenton 1,536]

Have you investigated the rear beam? If this is worn/has play it can make the initial turn in vague.

[Stevo309 0]

Aah yes good point. The tracking was done this morning actually before my posting and made no difference. I installed the new rack yesterday and set the length between tracks rod ends the same as the old one, apparently this was pretty close and they only adjusted the toe-in by 0.1 degrees. I had to have it done anyway to be sure i wouldn't be scrubbing tyres. Tyre pressures are all at 28psi.

 

Good suggestion with the rear beam as i haven't investigated that, it certainly doesn't have any camber on the rear wheels but no evidence in the receipts that anything has ever been replaced at the back end so it's possible.

[jackherer 543]

The car when i bought it also already has almost new Bilstein Black dampers

 

Black Bilstein dampers on the rear? If so throw them in the bin and put some standard GTI ones on, even used Peugeot dampers are better than the low end Bilsteins (BNE-1931) which are pretty much base model spec.

 

Also, as you have changed the steering rack, is your tracking correct? You need to check you have the same amount of steering lock in both directions.

[Stevo309 0]

Yeah the dampers all round are Bilstein blacks, i'm told the front springs (red) are Avo -40mm and the torsion bar is lowered to suit. I have to admit though that to me it doesn't look lowered by 40mm, perhaps 20mm max. I didn't realise they were no good, i actually have some 309 rear OEM dampers (used) somewhere so i might try them.

 

Tracking is all ok, had that checked today after installing the rack, lock to lock each way fine and steering wheel sitting straight etc. I centred the rack before installing and set the distance between track rod ends exactly the same as the old one. There was only one way i could see that the UJ mounts to the pinion (square on my car).

 

I have some tatty old 1.9 wheels in the garage, again from the 309 days and i tried 2 front with Uniroyal 195/50/15s on and it today quickly and actually it felt a bit better. Might be a combination of tyres and shocks i'm thinking. The side walls on the Toyo T1-Rs do look kind of bulgy? I'm wondering if i'me better off with 185/55s.

 

Although the plan is to keep the car standard i'm not against lowering it, i believe that any car looks better lowered so i'm thinking of coilovers to get the height just right and adjust torsion bar accordingly. Any recommendations? Sorry, i know this is probably old ground. Not looking for track spec, fast road use coilovers at an affordable price would be ideal. Have KW on the 306 and they're excellent, don't think they're available for 205 though.

[jackherer 543]

The front black Bilsteins are OK, it is only the rears that are no good. If you have some 309 ones it is definitely worth putting them on, even 100k+ mile 20 year old Peugeot ones are better than the Bilsteins in my experience.

[welshpug 1,645]

I'd echo Tom and Kieran's comments, they ring true with my experiences of my own 205, I had gone through a similar route of replacing a wishbone, complete steering rack inc track rod ends.

 

a beam rebuild improved it, and swapping the BNE 1931's for some peugeot o.e 5206K6 dampers transformed it.

 

I found that on ever so slightly undulating roads that the back would bob along, and would follow any tramlines, now it doesn't at all (or rather didnt as I haven't driven it in a year )

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Could still be the rack, It's a shame you cannot get them from Pug anymore but having used most types there is a noticable differance between the £30.00 rack and the £130.00 from Pug.

[Stevo309 0]

I got a box of bits with the car and having had a look I have the original factory shocks so I plan to put the rears on tomorrow to see what that does instead of the bilstein blacks.

 

This has raised a question though... How should they be orientated? Having checked the Haynes book of lies it doesn't specify. I'm presuming the body is upward with the plastic gaiter nearer the ground and the flat side of the shock body is up towards the beam? Does this sound right?

 

Thanks

[jackherer 543]

IIRC the bushes are a different inner diameter at each end so you can't actually fit them the wrong way round.

[welshpug 1,645]

Also if they are the large bodied ones they have an indentation ion the body that should be facing upwards to clear the bracket of the crossmember.

[Stevo309 0]

Thanks guys. Yeah once i was under there i could see that it was obvious. Just surprised to not find any info regarding that in Haynes or on the net.

 

Anyway i fitted the factory original rear shocks and the car is hugely improved. I could feel straight away that the back is firmer and it's much more willing to turn in. Seems that those Bilsteins as people have said are s*ite and too soft, at motorway speeds it felt downright dangerous. By comparison the front feels soft now.

 

At slow speeds still the car still feels a little sloppy at the front to me so i'll investigate the front shocks next, these are also Bilstein blacks but my plan is to fit coilovers anyway so i'll investigate what to get next to replace them.

 

Cheers