1.6 Pistons In A 1.9

[rob_furious 0]

can anyone point me in the right direction about this. iv looked around but i cant get a definate answer on the effects and requirements.

 

fitting 1.6 pistons will raise the CR. are any other engine components require to make this work.

 

does the added compression cause knock/det? and can this be avoided with shell optimax or tesco 99

 

can the standard ignition handle the raised compression. eg will it run better and give more power. or will it run like a bag of spanners and gain nothing.

 

what kind of power can be gained from this on standard engine and engine with other mods such as cams and bodies or twin carbs.

 

 

if this has already been asked and answered can someone forward me the link as i couldnt find it.

 

 

cheers

[blessed6383 0]

how is this even possible as 1900 have a bigger bore size????? so 1600 pistons would just slap around and you would never get any compression let alone ever get it to run thats like sticking my middle finger in jordan would even touchthe sides if i put it in sideways

[welshpug 1,661]

its the same bore size, just a different stroke.

 

1st result from a google search of this site - http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...mp;#entry752845

Edited July 21, 2010 by welshpug

[blessed6383 0]

its the same bore size, just a different stroke.

 

never knew that i was always under the impression cc was down to the bore diameter but saying this most of theengines i've build have been bike engines esp 2 strokes

 

my mistake then

[welshpug 1,661]

the info you need;

 

1.6 pistons have 9cc dish and 37.50mm compression height ... i have DFZ pistons (same crown shape , compression height and dish volume as 1.6 pistons but they have conrods of same length as on the standard 1.9 D6B pistons ..)

 

fitted inside 1.9 D6B engine and now the CR is around 11.1 also the squish height is smaller when using this pistons ...

 

Regards !

Damir

 

This would be ideal for running uprated camshafts, ignition you'd need to get a distributor rebuilt by the likes of H&H ignition solutions to suite your combination of compression ratio etc, or get at least mappable spark management like omex 200, or a DTA which the name of escapes me right now.

Edited July 21, 2010 by welshpug

[welshpug 1,661]

another topic with slightly more info for you;

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...mp;#entry995056

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

Can you fit 1.9 pistons in a 1.6 for lower compression?

[welshpug 1,661]

yup if you wanted to, though probably easier to just get the 1.9 pistons machined down a little as swapping rods/pistons on the 8 valve is quite a complicated involved process as they are an interference/shrink fit, not floating and clipped.

Edited July 21, 2010 by welshpug

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

Cheers WP I guess it's not as simple as heating up the piston with a blow torch then?

[welshpug 1,661]

depends if you want to re-use the piston

 

A press will be fine to remove the pins but you do need to be VERY careful, and for re-fitting you need to heat the rods and cool (read freeze!) the pins.

 

pistons you don't need to heat as the pins slide inside them

 

Damir did post up the original peugeot documents for doing this.

[mickie 3]

ive fitted the 1900 pistons with its crank in my 1600 engine. oe top end, works no bother

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

how is this even possible as 1900 have a bigger bore size????? so 1600 pistons would just slap around and you would never get any compression let alone ever get it to run

when it comes to technical information and guideance, think twice before you hit the "submit" button - make sure that information and knowledge you are about to share is either first hand or verified fact. hear-say and deliberate missinformation will not be tolerated.

Please don't post if you don't know, its been mentioned so many times these engine (1.6 8v, 1.8 8 & 16v 1.9 8 & 16v) all share the same biore size of 83mm but the stroke (crank) differs along with the conrods between 1.6 & 1.9 & Mi engines.

 

As said, with everything else as standard the 1.6 pistons in a 1.9 bump the compression ratio to about 11:1.

 

Something I'm about to do on an engine I'm building.

ive fitted the 1900 pistons with its crank in my 1600 engine. oe top end, works no bother

The op is asking about just using the 1.6 pistons in a 1.9 not the whole internals to make a 1.6 into a 1.9.

 

Graham.

[Baz 421]

And the perfect mod to reach the needed compression to run a lumpier cam!

[edbar 6]

Certainly is!

[rob_furious 0]

thanks for the replys still no real answer on the knock/det front. anyone rolling roaded after fitting the pistons or know of the power gained

[marksorrento205 80]

Sorrentopete is doing this very build at the min too

[DamirGTI 342]

thanks for the replys still no real answer on the knock/det front. anyone rolling roaded after fitting the pistons or know of the power gained

 

Yes it'll knock/detonate , so , re-curved dizzy or better still mappable ignition is really a must .. cos , with std. unmodified dizzy , it'll never unleash full power/torque from this kinda high CR engine .. could be even worse than standard , depending on the fuel grade/octane ratio , with std. dizzy you'll need to retard the timing by such amount (in order to make it stop detonating) so that the engine will perform like a bag of **** ...

 

So once done , get the dizzy re-curved (by H&H boys ..) or fit mappable ignition .. and from then on , use 97/98RON petrol only or higher if possible ..

 

As for power gains , i've done some other bits and bobs in combo with this so really can't speak just about the effects of raising the CR on the power/torque .. but you'll certainly notice it !

 

Anyway , before you attempt to do this id strongly recommend good engine re-check (especially liners/pistons) and "mild" engine rebuilding :

- refresh the head , i.e. valve guides , steam seals , 3 angle valve seats would be nice , valve lapping afterwards , skim the head prior to refitting (but just surface skim , not more than 0.20mm) valve clearances re-set after the head is fitted onto the block..

- bottom end -> hone the liners , fit new piston rings , new big end and main bearings ..

 

Then , add a few more mods (if possible within the budget ..) , cos it'll be so much better .. like :

- ported head

- aftermarket cam

- bodies or an pair of carbs

- etc.

 

Reliability wise for this kinda engine , if tuned up properly after the mods , it'll be durable as OE item .. i haven't had any problems what so ever with mine for a good few years now ... and it's my everyday car

 

Damir

[edbar 6]

You really want a decent cam etc to utilise that much comp ratio otherwise its overkill really.

Mine will det slightly below about 2800rpm if you nail the throttle so fit a 1.6 box if I was you to keep the revs up and engine cooking. I am running weber mappable ignition. Mine runs lovely, and at part throttle below 2800rpm its fine for cruising and good on fuel all things considered.

[rob_furious 0]

Yes it'll knock/detonate , so , re-curved dizzy or better still mappable ignition is really a must .. cos , with std. unmodified dizzy , it'll never unleash full power/torque from this kinda high CR engine .. could be even worse than standard , depending on the fuel grade/octane ratio , with std. dizzy you'll need to retard the timing by such amount (in order to make it stop detonating) so that the engine will perform like a bag of **** ...

 

So once done , get the dizzy re-curved (by H&H boys ..) or fit mappable ignition .. and from then on , use 97/98RON petrol only or higher if possible ..

 

As for power gains , i've done some other bits and bobs in combo with this so really can't speak just about the effects of raising the CR on the power/torque .. but you'll certainly notice it !

 

Anyway , before you attempt to do this id strongly recommend good engine re-check (especially liners/pistons) and "mild" engine rebuilding :

- refresh the head , i.e. valve guides , steam seals , 3 angle valve seats would be nice , valve lapping afterwards , skim the head prior to refitting (but just surface skim , not more than 0.20mm) valve clearances re-set after the head is fitted onto the block..

- bottom end -> hone the liners , fit new piston rings , new big end and main bearings ..

 

Then , add a few more mods (if possible within the budget ..) , cos it'll be so much better .. like :

- ported head

- aftermarket cam

- bodies or an pair of carbs

- etc.

 

Reliability wise for this kinda engine , if tuned up properly after the mods , it'll be durable as OE item .. i haven't had any problems what so ever with mine for a good few years now ... and it's my everyday car

 

Damir

 

thank you that was the kinda answer i was looking for

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

This could be interesting.

 

I'm building a 1.9 engine with 1.6 pistons & the head has been skimmed when it was reconditioned by 0.007" (or 0.175mm) but when adding the 1.6 pistons they should bring the c/r up nicely to suit the Piper 270 cam I've got fitted to my current engine giving me just over 11:1 c/r.

 

Once its in & running I'm going to take it back to Chipwizards for a check over & adjustment if required to see if it makes much difference to my previous engine.

 

I split the 1.6 pistons & rods on Thursday so once I've cleaned them up I'm going to fit them to the 1.9 rods so the build can continue.

 

Graham.