Mi16 Vs 8v Loom Differences

[blessed6383 0]

hi guys (ment to say advice from the wise)

 

after trying to get my pug to run righ which has been a nightmare

 

turns out it just wont run smooth on the 8v set-up so have decide to bin the 8v set-up and go mi all the way as when i had the engine fitted in my old pug it ran sweet as a nut and am never going to get it like that on this set-up.

 

so just wondered what the difference were with the mi16 and gti wiring harness? as have been trying to find one now for few weeks but with no joy does anyone make one? or can the 205gti one be modified to work as know a guy who could do it for me but would it be more hassle than its worth?

 

thanks in advance

Edited July 17, 2010 by blessed6383

[hexhamstu 9]

I've got a 3-row mi16 one I'll sell you, unfortunately dont have an ECU to go with it. You'll need to splice some of the 8v loom into it for the conversion but there is plenty info on here about it if you have a search.

[stefan 4]

I found this guide for doing the conversion from a member here, don't remember from who, I saved it as a word document.

 

'Wiring loom guide to convert Peugeot 205 Jetronic to Mi16 Motronic.

 

This guide is written from my experience of transplanting a 1989 405 Mi16 loom into my late 1990 205 GTi 1.6

 

Please note that looms are not all the same and colours of wires can vary, please go on wire

numbers, and that wire numbers on the 205 and 405 loom may not necessarily be for the same function.

 

Any references to locations of parts will be from the drivers point of view sat in the car.

 

 

Stage one - Remove Loom from 405 Mi16

 

First locate the Motronic ECU in the engine bay. It is on the left hand side of the car behind the engine compartment bulkhead. It is likely that there will be another ECU for the ABS system which is not needed. You should be able to spot the difference as most of the Bosch ECU's have "Motronic" Embossed across the casing. Unbolt the ECU from the ABS computer and unplug the ECU. Keep it somewhere safe as they can blow and not work.

 

Now its just a matter of getting the ECU plug through the bulkhead and unweaving it all, you should disconnect all the components on the loom such as the air flow meter, the idle control valve etc. I used little cardboard labels on string to label what each plug on the loom did, and I put them on all the engine sensors as well. It makes putting everything back together easier and if you dont know what each part is just give it a name like "Sensor 1" or something.. make sure you label the part and the loom connector so you can remember where it goes! (Also remeber to note which injector plugs in where, and it would be helpful to take note where the HT leads go to which cylender as its hard figuring out where they go if you forget)

 

So everything is disconnected in the engine bay you should finally get to the point where all the components of the loom are unplugged you will get to a point on the loom where you dont need anything else. This will be when you reach a brown and black multiplug connector.

 

They are wrapped in black plastic sometimes so take this off anything wrapped in plastic film. Once you find the connectors unclip them from the rest of the car.

 

There will also be a 2 pin connector for the power supply which is hooked into the positive distribution box, pull this out.

 

There might also be a one or two pin connector for another wire unclip this as well (this may not be present on your loom it depends on year of car) as it is for the starter motor, some looms incorportate this cable into the brown or black plug.

 

You should now have the Motronic Loom totaly free. Put it to one side.

 

 

 

Stage two - Link loom part 1.

 

Right you have got the motronic loom out of the car. You now must make a link loom. The purpose of this will be explained later.

 

Get the brown and black plugs in the 405 (the ones you just unclipped from the Motronic wiring) and follow down about one meter. You need to cut though the core of wires now so that you will end up with the 2 plugs with a meter of wire coming out of them.

 

(If you have the additional connector which is one or 2 pin do the same)

 

Make sure you keep all the cables the same length.

Just so you understand DO NOT CUT THE MOTRONIC LOOM YOU TOOK FROM THE 405!!

 

Once you have done this you will be left with

 

1) Motronic loom with brown and black plug on end

2) 405 "Link loom" brown and black plug to connect to Motronic loom with 1m or so of wire loose.

 

 

 

Stage three - Remove Jetronic loom from 205

 

Ok now is the time you have to operate on your car.

What you need to do is find two brown multiplug connectors under the dashboard. They are

 

quite well tucked away. I ended up ripping the dash out, but its best not to do that if you can help it.

 

You could probably make it alot easier if you take off the steering wheel and take out the drivers seat so there is room to lay down.

 

The two multiplugs you are after are (in my car) between the steering column and the heater controls. You need to disconnect them.

 

You should also locate the Jetronic ECU bolted under the steering column, unplug this and take out the ECU.

 

Now just remove the loom in a similar fashion to getting the 405 loom out. Unclip and unplug everything until the car has no engine management loom. You will be left with all the wires for the lights and battery etc.

 

One other thing you may note is that the 8v 205 uses a tachymetric relay to control umong other things the fuel pump. It will be redundant with the 16v loom.

 

 

 

Stage four - Link loom part two

 

Right we now need the other half of the link loom. You need to use a portion of the 8v Jetronic loom you have just removed from the car.

 

The two brown multiplugs you disconnected from under the dashboard? Find the plugs which hook upto them on the redundant loom. Take a meter of cable and chop it off.

 

Just to make myself clear DO NOT CHOP OFF THE BROWN MULTIPLUGS UNDER THE DASHBOARD!

 

So you should have a meter of wires loose with brown plugs on the end which connect to your dashboard plugs in the car.

 

What you need to do is take these loose wire ends and connect them up to the corresponding cables which you have loose from the 405 loom So in the end you have your 2 brown plugs in the 205 connecting to your link loom which then connect to your Motroic loom in the 405.

 

The purpose of this is so that the gauges on your dash work with the new engine.

 

205--{2 brn plgs][brn plgs}------join-----{Brown/Black plg][brown/Black plg}--motronic loom

 

 

 

Section five - Joining the link loom

 

right we now have the 405 plugs and the 205 plugs on the table ready to be soldered

 

together, this section tells you which wire to connect together.

 

 

Plugs in the 205

 

9 Pin Brown connector

 

1. Reverse light (wire 52, brown)

2. Reverse light (wire 53, purple)

3. Coolant light (wire 47, yellow)

4. Coolant meter (wire 47a, red)

5. Alternator (wire 7a, brown thin wire)

6. Oil pressure meter (wire 30, lilac)

7. Oil temp meter (wire 30a, white)

8. Oil pressure light (wire 30b, grey)

9. Switched positive (wire 2, light blue)

 

6 Pin Brown connector

 

1. Coolant fluid level (wire 47b)

2. Fuel pump (wire 76)

3. Coolant fluid level (wire M47B)

4. RPM meter (wire 112)

5. K-Light (wire 74)

6. Starter motor (wire 46)

 

 

Connectors from 405 loom

 

Black 14 pin connector

 

A1. Reverse light (wire 52)

A2. Oil temp meter (wire 30c)

A3. Coolant meter (47a)

A4. NOT USED

A5. Switched positive (wire 2)

A6. RPM Meter (wire 112)

A7. Ground (Wire M)

B1. Coolant light (wire 47)

B2. Oil pressure meter (wire 30)

B3. Alternator (wire 7a)

B6. Reverselight (wire 52)

 

Brown connector

 

A6. Oil level (Wire 224 Gauge not present in 205 instrument console so is not used in conversion)

A7. Oil level (Wire 224 Gauge not present in 205 instrument console so is not used in conversion)

B4. Starter motor (wire 46a)

B6. K-Light (wire 74)

B7. Fuel pump (wire 76)

 

 

You now need to soldier the corresponding cables to each other from the 205 plugs to the 405 plugs.

This will leave you with an "adapter cable" or link loom as I call it so you can plug the 405 loom into your 205. Using this method is one way of doing it there are other ways, this is the way I have done it.

Please see my diagram I have made to complement this guide. It should be named enginebaycomponents.gif.

 

For BX wiring Im not sure how its done some say its easier than the 405 loom.'

Edited July 17, 2010 by stefan

[hexhamstu 9]

Thats to make a link loom, the loom I'm offering is the BX loom so is different to that guide.

[hexhamstu 9]

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=70603

 

 

 

Should help

[GLPoomobile 958]

The main reason the Mi16 on it's proper management is so much smoother is because it has superior Motronic management. You are trying to make it run on inferior Jetronic, but to make matters worse you are running it on management that wasn't designed for it, that's why you are having trouble getting it to run smooth. It was kind of an acceptable solution years ago, simply because it does work to an extent, but it's long since been recognised as a complete pikey bodge job of a solution.

 

It's obviously not just a case of modifying the loom, as you need all of the Mi16 components to do a proper job - AFM, dizzy, ICV, injectors, ECU, CPS. Out of all of those, the loom is going to be the biggest hassle to source and the most likely to be in bad condition.

 

If my personal circumstances weren't so difficult right now, I'd have offered to build you a brand new loom for circa £150. I think Miles does Mi16 looms ready to drop straight in, but since he's running a business he obviously charges more (not to mention he obviously has a lot more experience than me - I've only made one ). Have a look at his eBay shop.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Ignore all this link loom stuff, it really is a bodge and there's no need for it, Easy way is top strip the Mi/BX loom so your left with the ECU parts only and remake all the sensor wires then they can be routed correcty and without a splice in sight.

 

I don;t have any, I could make you one but you'll be looking around £600.00 for a new one as I would have to peg it all out and make up diag's etc

[blessed6383 0]

It's obviously not just a case of modifying the loom, as you need all of the Mi16 components to do a proper job - AFM, dizzy, ICV, injectors, ECU, CPS. Out of all of those, the loom is going to be the biggest hassle to source and the most likely to be in bad condition.

 

If my personal circumstances weren't so difficult right now, I'd have offered to build you a brand new loom for circa £150. I think Miles does Mi16 looms ready to drop straight in, but since he's running a business he obviously charges more (not to mention he obviously has a lot more experience than me - I've only made one ). Have a look at his eBay shop.

 

yer kind of what i guessed its a bodge as just runs crap with it this way so only real option is to go all mi, i have an mi16 afm icv and injectors just the other bits will have to get and yes like you said the loom and matching ecu seems to be the difficult thing as cant find a matching pair

 

is buliding a loom that difficult if you understand wiring diagrams? etc as have a friend whos very good with that stuff but what would you do about sourcing the plugs for everything etc? and also in the wiring diagrams do they tell you which ecu pin is which etc? just a question really as electric's are not really my thing

[blessed6383 0]

Ignore all this link loom stuff, it really is a bodge and there's no need for it, Easy way is top strip the Mi/BX loom so your left with the ECU parts only and remake all the sensor wires then they can be routed correcty and without a splice in sight.

 

I don;t have any, I could make you one but you'll be looking around £600.00 for a new one as I would have to peg it all out and make up diag's etc

 

hi miles could you pm me a price please if i can source the 2 different looms as want it to be as tidy as possible

 

cheers for all the advice guys

[GLPoomobile 958]

is buliding a loom that difficult if you understand wiring diagrams?

 

Difficult? No, it's a piece of piss! It just takes time, patience, attention to detail etc

 

Look, electrics have never been my strong point. I even struggled to understand relays until recently (which annoys Sarty ). I built my own loom against the advice of some very knowledeable people on here (you'll only make things worse, why make work for yourself, you need hundreds of pounds worth of tools to do it right, children will die, dogs will grow 2 heads and the world will end etc etc ). I had a knackered loom donated to me, and I used that plus my original loom as templates - which is where I had the advantage over you as you don't have an Mi loom to copy. I did loads of research on here, and using the CAPs programme, I checked, double checked and triple checked both looms, I measured the engine bay for my chosen layout, I studied Servicebox for the part numbers for plugs and terminals etc, and drew wiring diagrams. It was a LOT of work! But I made the loom and it worked first time. I've only ever had one fault with it since, which was my own stupid fault.

 

If you pay someone to do it, the expense is in the labour, as it takes a lot of time. If you do what I did, say balls to it, take up the challenge and do the homework, you can build one yourself for something like £100. Stop doubting yourself, stop getting in a muddle about electrics as you probably know no more or less than I do. All you need is the information as to what wires go where, a few basic hand tools, and the patience to put it all together. It IS a piece of piss

 

Two of my topics that will help

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...942&hl=loom

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...267&hl=loom

Edited July 17, 2010 by GLPoomobile

[blessed6383 0]

(you'll only make things worse, why make work for yourself, you need hundreds of pounds worth of tools to do it right, children will die, dogs will grow 2 heads and the world will end etc etc ).

 

haha yer guess you will never be able to do it unless you learn and always enjoy the challenge of trying something new even tho at time you think f**k it

 

always wanted to do it and thinking about it doesn't seem to hard in my head as at the end of the day its only joining something from one end to the other haha (sounds so simple) i get what you mean by the need to be paitent as making sure its all right length etc must be a bit of a mare as want it to be as tidy as possible with nothing more than what is needed. as far as the 2 row or 3 row (ecu plug) goes which would you use?

 

some one has offered a 3 row wiring loom on here do you think it would be worth getting as a template?

 

thanks for your advice on this mate think it will be a good learning curve

 

cheers chris

[GLPoomobile 958]

If you can get a loom from someone, then you obviously have the option to either a}just go ahead and use that loom, or b} use it as a reference for building your own.

 

If you do decide to use a 2nd hand loom, I'd spend some time going over it with a fine tooth comb and check all wires, joints and terminals are in good condition, with no damage (which will mean pulling any loom wrap off of it). Use an electronic multimeter to continuity test every wire (set the MM to test, put the 2 terminals at each end of the wire being tested and it'll buzz if there is continuity). If you do find damage you can just replace that wire, or could splice in a new section of wire (which would work, but it's something I'm personally not keen on as I still feel it's a little on the pikey side and I don't like soldering).

 

One thing I will warn you of, is that checking through an old loom is a complete pain in the ass! My 2 were like spaghetti junction! You kind of expect them to just lay out neatly on the floor, but that's not the case. The different sections are different lengths and you have wires that go between sections and so forth, so it's quite a tangle. I ended up hanging mine over a door (in doors) as it was the right height to allow the loom to hang over each side just short of the floor. I then traced each wire carefully and methodically. Sometime there were wires tangled up making life difficult, so I'd remove one wire at a time (popping the terminal out of it's plug), un-tangle it from the loom, and then pop it back in to it's plug. Like I said, it takes time and patience.

Edited July 18, 2010 by GLPoomobile

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Best to use Ohm's as it tells you the resistance of the wire, Continuity testing doesn't tell you that

 

But best way at a guess is lay your old 8v loom on top of the 16v one for sensor take off's etc as the 405/BX loom go the wrong way

[GLPoomobile 958]

Yeah, but you said my loom was routed the wrong way too (or something to that effect) That hurt my feelings

 

Granted, mine doesn't look the best as it's still not 100% finished and needs to come out again to be preoperly wrapped, and I had to make a few compromises with it, but I much prefer mine coming across the passenger side and over the gearbox. I'd prefer it if the whole loom came out of the bulkhead on the passenger side too.

[Masekwm 2]

Which gromit is the one to use on the passenger side? Is it the one under the coolant bottle which has a couple of wires coming through it?