1.9 Mi16 Dizzy Advice

[locosaki 0]

Hi all,

 

Just after a little advice if any one can help ?!

 

I've got a H&H distributer on my car and I just set it up by ear,Anyway I got a shot of a strobe light to check the ignition timing and to my amazement I had 32 degrees at idle !!

 

I then tried to retard as much as possible but the adjustment on the dizzy would only take it back to 19 degrees at idle !

 

I then removed the dizzy and filed alittle more from the slot to get it back to 10 degrees at idle,I'm led to believe this gives around 30 degrees full advance !

 

Is this to much advance still ?

 

I had the car on rolling road and with 32 degrees at idle the car was making 110bhp wheels,We then done another run at 19 degrees at idle and it made 117bhp at wheels.

 

Finally we set the static to 10 degrees and the car made 131bhp at the wheels. The reason we tried the different settings was to see what effect it had on power and also we were trying to detect pinking but we could detect no pinking at any of the static settings ??!!

 

To get to the point,The more we retarded the timing the more power the car seemed to be making !

 

Does this sound correct ?

 

If I'm to retard more I will have to file more from the slots in the dizzy,Does anyone know what figures I should be looking at for full advance ?

 

I do know I would be better with management but funds don't allow at the minute plus the fact the car is on carbs so it would be too expensive to go to bodies etc.

 

Thanks in advance

[welshpug 1,661]

you can still get spark only management or just run full management just controlling the spark

 

 

afraid I have no idea what figures you should be looking at, though I remember PeterT has played with the ignition timing on standard ecus.

 

are you running aftermarket cams and if so have you checked the timing? that can affect how the distributor sits.

[petert 588]

With management I usually run 10 deg. at idle through to 25 deg. at full load for a std. engine (not including any vacuum advance). With a dizzy I set it up to run from 12 deg. to 25 deg., so that your off idle response is better. With management you'd be able to give it 12 deg. at 1250, but such fine increments are not possible with a dizzy.

[Baz 421]

1.9 Mi16 Dizzy advice = They never had a dizzy, put it in the bin.

 

[welshpug 1,661]

i wanted to say that but thought best not to

[blessed6383 0]

take it hes on about the 8v loom then same set up as me and its crap lol but then saying this his BHP figures are seriuosly down if its an Mi16? now im confused

[large 33]

take it hes on about the 8v loom then same set up as me and its crap lol but then saying this his BHP figures are seriuosly down if its an Mi16? now im confused

 

I would not call 131bhp ATW seriuosly down.

[blessed6383 0]

I would not call 131bhp ATW seriuosly down.

 

correct me if im wrong but between 110BHP and 131BHP is not that good surely from a MI16 as the 1900 8v puts down between 120BHP and 127BHP'ish

[welshpug 1,661]

at the flywheel, not wheels.

 

131 atw would be respectable for a standard Mi16, but not one on itb's.

[large 33]

correct me if im wrong but between 110BHP and 131BHP is not that good surely from a MI16 as the 1900 8v puts down between 120BHP and 127BHP'ish

 

The key point is the ATW (at the wheels) not flywheel.

 

The op does not tell us what carbs the car is on this could help, but as i have said I would go to std mi managment.

Edited July 12, 2010 by large

[locosaki 0]

Thanks for the input guys.

 

The car is running Kawasaki ZX9R bike carbs (40mm straight through) with a Bogg Bros inlet.

 

Everything else is standard at the moment. Cam timing is standard 4 inlet cam and 2 exhaust.

 

The exhaust is the early type. ( 3 peice )

 

I'm quite happy with the bhp 130ish ATW must equal around 170 fly ?

 

I'm just curious if there is more to gain by retarding the full load advance.

 

I always thought advancing a little gave best performance ?

[woodsy 0]

Iam still using 8v dizzy on my mi16 with 45's and everytime i get it setup at SBC i always get around 173@ wheels.I know people say their rollers

are a bit high but have always used Paul there and extremely happy. I was thinking about a H+H dizzy like yours aswell mate although i know it would be loads

better on mappable ignition.

 

Mine is just basically rebuilt, catcam inlet which didnt really make much difference,standard pulleys,4-2-1 manifold and lightened and balanced bottom end.

[locosaki 0]

Thats good going mate,173 ATW is superb.

 

I would be happy just to get 150 ATW.

 

I don't suppose you know what advance you have at idle ?

[woodsy 0]

Top of my head cant remember but will find out for you tomorrow mate.

[locosaki 0]

Good man,

 

Much appreciated.

[petert 588]

I always thought advancing a little gave best performance ?

 

No, only if the combustion chamber is inefficient to begin with. The more efficient you make the engine the less advance it needs. The standard full load map in an Mi16 is 25-26 degrees. Whereas an 8V is 30 degrees.

[locosaki 0]

Thanks for that peter.

 

Think I will try retarding the ignition timing now so full load advance is set to 25deg.

 

Am I correct in saying that, If I rev car up when stationary the timing light should show how much advance I'm getting ?

[petert 588]

Am I correct in saying that, If I rev car up when stationary the timing light should show how much advance I'm getting ?

 

So long as the vacuum advance is disconnected.

[woodsy 0]

Could you not move your dizzy adapter round slightly so you have more adjustment on dizzy.I know when i fitted my inlet cam i had to play around with adapter to get timing as it was.Iam sure mine is set to 0 on tickover and my advance vacum pipe is always blanked off ever since i fitted carbs

[Dazza 4]

I tried the H&H dizzy on my car first time round and it never ran right, there was a strange misfire and it just was not going as these should no real crisp acceleration, with a standard one it flew.

 

To be honest they were exellent and replaced it without hasstle and when the second one did not work either ( and these were the 32 degree items, they gave me a full refund and as a token gesture refurbed my TR6 dizzy FOC !

 

I know have a KMS.

[boldy205 75]

The 8V dizzy on an Mi16 is a way to make it rum, it will always be a second rate setup though. I had one on my (standard apart from 36mm chokes on 45mm DCOEs) Mi, had it RRd and the chap rcond i could get more driveability and power from a mappable spark only ECU setup ( i used Megajolt). I set it all up, sent the car back to him, and lets just say, he was correct!

Do it propper!

[locosaki 0]

I've now readjusted my ignition timing as per peters figures.

 

I have static timing of 5.5 degrees at 850 rpm,Car idles perfect and starts first turn of the key.

 

I now have full load timing at 25 degrees at around 4000rpm.

 

I had the car back on the same rollers this evening and it made 142bhp ATW.

 

Even with carbs and an old school dizzy the driveability of the car is excellent,No hesitation or flat spots,So I'm quite happy for now.

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I had the car back on the same rollers this evening and it made 142bhp ATW.

 

I think that's an excellent result and shows the advice from this forum works. And your comment about driveability is spot on.

 

The other rollers with the other guy claiming 173bhp ATW I think is a little ambitious.

[locosaki 0]

Yep have to agree,

 

There is some very knowledgeable people on here.

 

I would just like to thanks those who took the time to answer my questions.

 

Just goes to show that reasonable power can be made without throwing alot of money at the car.

[woodsy 0]

AH whats wrong with mine making 173@ wheels. Its always give around tha figure on same rollers at Skip Browns since i built that motor. I and 3 other gti's had RR day couple years ago and all gave round about the right readings. One was a full SBC roadspeed conversion which gave the power they claim when they build them.

 

The other was an S16 with carbs and gave 160 so they cant be that far out.