[engine_work] My 1.6 To Gti6 To 1.9 8v Build

[Masekwm 2]

After selling my Mi with bodies life went back to driving a normal 8v with no cage, no harnesses, being able to hear the radio and a heater that works.

 

4 weeks on, I love the standard 8v but miss the performance of the Mi. So I came up with a cunning plan.

 

I would take my 8v

 

 

fit a much better set of half leathers, tidy up some rough bits and make it 16v

 

Sounds great, but the last time I pulled out an engine, a 1.6 8v, to fit a larger one, a 1.9 8v, it never ran again. So I decided the only way to do this is to build the car and get it running in another shell and then swap the engines... So the 1.6 goes to GTi6 and then back to 1.9 8v, and then fit the working 16v unit to the Cherry 8v. Confused? It makes perfect sense to me!

 

So lets get to work...

 

 

Hopefully by Xmas I'll have the black car for sale, the cherry will be 16v and everyone will be happy. The wife thinks by xmas the black car will be still sat in the garage.

 

I'm completely out of my depth with this project, I'm not a mechanic in anyway shape or form but since owning a 205 I've progressed from not having a clue about how to change spark plugs to quite happily going into this knowing it's going to take some time. One thing driving me on is the failure with the 1.6 - 1.9 swap and this is my way of correcting that in my mind.

 

Like other threads, I'll add as much info as I can throughout the build and hopefully any others can gain from my very basic understanding! Search does indeed rock!

 

Keith

 

Planned jobs for this week:-

 

Purchase more required bits - Timing belt kit, clutch, gearbox, thermostat adaptor, speedo drive, coolant bits.

Fit nice half leathers to Cherry, put half leathers from Cherry into back of Black 205.

Remove wiring loom from Black car.

Write up draft wiring guide and email it to mate who will hopefully sort the wiring for me.

Hopefully collect engine and fit to engine stand.

[Masekwm 2]

Got one half of the interior swap done today, shame about the drivers side bolster but much looks much better.

 

Out with the old

 

 

 

In with the new

 

 

 

I'll be putting the removed interior into the black shell as it came with no seats

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

Good luck Keith, the feeling when the engine fires up for the first time is well worth the blood, sweat and tears

[Masekwm 2]

Got cracking yesterday.

 

As my engine was already removed some time was saved, so first of all I pulled out the exhaust system, the large backbox isn't my cup of tea so went straight up for sale and the cracked 8v manifold crudely repaired with a large dollop of fire paste went to the bin. Then the other bits like the exhaust heat shield and coil & bracket followed it.

 

Then inside the car, removed the lower dash under the steering wheel, removed the ecu and tachymetic relay and forced the metal bracket down as I tried to figure it all out. I could see the brown plugs but couldn't figure out how the hell to get to them. So I went home, drank some beer and used search.

 

Following searching, I read an old post about removing the steering column to get more room. So off it came four nuts hold it in place. Using a long screwdriver, I could then free the two brown plugs

 

 

I was then baffled how to free the wiring from up above the dash, so got out my phone and searched the forum. Found another post that said to remove the ECU and tachymetric relay plugs, so off they came and each wire pulled through cleanly. Then all the engine side loom came through the bulkhead and that was that side done.

 

Climbing into the passenger footwell, working through the glovebox, I started to snip off the cable ties holding the wiring loom together behind the heater box, the last one was an absolute nightmare taking nearly 40 minutes to remove! Possibly quicker to remove the bits of dash but I kept nearly snipping it and failing.

 

With those cable ties snipped, the cables pulled through cleanly and I'm left with this

 

 

I need to figure out what the alarm connects to, it can be seen as the grey box on the steering column, and it's wires are running back towards the fuse box.

 

One 8v loom removed.

 

[flipperthebushkangaroo 2]

Keith,

Couple of questions for you mate if you don't mind, as you have just removed you wiring, what was the condition of the wiring in the cabin? (i have an 89 1.6 so condition should be similar) and does all the engine bay wiring go out through the one bulkhead hole?

I'm in the process (very slowly ) of removing my engine to rewire the engine bay and do a few bits rust and have been thinking of fitting a good quality bulk head connector so the engine can be electrically disconnected by a simple one plug removal not sure if this will work but obviously if the cabin electrics are in good condition it would be the easy option compaired to riping the interior apart to get to the loom (i hope).

 

Thanks in advance

Roddie

[Masekwm 2]

Cabin wiring was fine, the alarm was quite poorly fitted though, two wires sat just twisted together. All the other wires were as new really.

 

The wiring then comes though the bulkhead just to the left of the pedals, the gromit came through complete with the wiring so refitting should be pretty easy.

 

I'm surprised by the lack of rust in the engine bay of the shell.

 

This afternoon my 8v got a lovely set of gear rods that I bought off the forum and a replacement driveshaft. Finally appears to have fixed it's dodgy wheel bearing.

[Masekwm 2]

Shell work

 

As I had a depased rack sit around, I decided the best thing to do was fit it to the shell. With everything undone engine side, another benefit of no engine. I noticed that I had locking wheel nuts. So a search of the interior and pile of bits in the back I find I have no key.

 

So I did the simple thing, started to remove the hub, as I tapped the hub down I noticed how much play was in the top mounts, so I dropped the driver side and cracked on with the fitting of the rack. Undid the subframe on the drivers side and then considered how much easier this would all be with the subframe on the floor.

 

So off came the subframe, much easier than I expected with just 6 bolts. With it on the floor, I realised that I needed my Arcan jack so I've had to leave it all stuck under the car for tonight.

 

Why has it suddenly gone from a trial engine fit to depas rack going in, thoughts of painting the subframe and engine... Looks like I've got the bug again.

 

8v

 

She feels much better with the gear rods fitted and looks better with a fresh coat of SRP

[Masekwm 2]

After removing the subframe, and going the long way about removing the hubs I found the locking wheel nut key

 

So I've taken the opportunity to clean up the subframe and remove years of crap.

 

Tonight, I collected the engine and gti6 brakes.

 

 

It now gets rather scary, but before that, I'm going refit the interior and get it looking almost like a 205 again. The alarm that is fitted is still a worry and needs more investigation.

[Masekwm 2]

It's been a long week, firstly I had to learn to solder, I then followed the wiring instructions in Aftermarket Engine Management Systems to build my 205/306 loom.

 

Today Tagy kindly came over today to help do the belt & pump swap, once that was done. We plugged the loom onto the engine, and then as the engine crane was there it was rude not to...

 

 

Still lots to do, the interior isn't in yet and I can't find a 1.6 gearbox

[Alastairh 47]

Good progress mate. Glad to see the legend HLG is still going strong.

 

I have a good 1.9 BE3 box if thats any help? It wouldn't be a bad thing with that GTi6 engine.

 

Al

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I'd remove the Alarm if it's that bad, Save allot of trouble as it will go wrong at somepoint anyway.

[Masekwm 2]

From poking around the wiring, I think the alarm has been removed, I can't find a siren and the bit you touch the immobiliser key to has been cut from behind.

 

I got bored of waiting for a 1.6 gearbox so took Al up on his offer of a decent 1.9. Picked up from him the last bits I needed, shafts and suspension.

 

Got home and got cracking again.

 

I had pulled the engine out to remove the oil cooler and look at the alt setup. So it was nice and easy.

 

First off was to remove the GTi6 clutch and fit the Mi one.

 

 

I then slipped on the gearbox and bolted it on with the two bolts I could find

 

As I don't trust myself that this is going to work, I'm doing it the slightly pikey way, instead of expense of chopping the manifold, I'm using an extended fork. I intend to swap back when it all works

 

 

I got rid of the metal pipe around the back of the engine and fitted the plastic 306 xsi water distribution block. I realised at this point I wasn't sure why I had done this so will be searching again!

 

 

A BakerBM thermostat housing replaced the gap left by removal of the GTi6 set up

 

 

Once all that was done, I then lifted it in and bolted it to the three engine mounts

 

 

Waiting on the ECU from Rich_W and some bits from Stew & Miles but hopefully in the next few weeks it should be back on 4 wheels.

Edited August 7, 2010 by Masekwm

[DaveW 6]

What the hell is that battary tray. Going well tho at least its in now

[miamichris 9]

What the hell is that battary tray. Going well tho at least its in now

 

That is a battery tray made entirely from rust sir, quite common on these 205's you know!

[DaveW 6]

I know battary acid loss from the sheer cornering or loos

[Masekwm 2]

What the hell is that battary tray. Going well tho at least its in now

 

Rat look innit blud

 

Ecu came today and the post office have more goodies for me

[Masekwm 2]

At last!

 

 

Dodgy earth somewhere as it'll only run with a jump lead from neg to gearbox Oh well, getting there

[Masekwm 2]

Had a few weeks off as I had to prepare for a Public Inquiry this week. So only got back to the garage today. First job was to return to the 306 coolant set up at the back as I couldn't figure out the heating pipes, so I bypassed it for now.

 

Fixed the dodgy earth so the car now starts on the key.

 

Filled the coolant system and found lots of LEAKS Fastened up the fasteners correctly, and then noticed the rad didn't have it's bung! Doh!

 

After doing an 8v, I didn't think it was possible to hate anything more than the exhaust manifold bolts to downpipe, then I tried it on the GTi6.

 

So many little jobs you don't think of, those random bits that need bunged like on the throttle housing. As it's going for an MOT as soon as it's complete, I started on the regular checks, typically the rear fog doesn't work!

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Good to see it started breifly.

 

Do you know when the timing belt was done last?

 

How did you get around the wiring?

 

Any bits your unsure of just ask.

[Masekwm 2]

We did the belt & pump before fitting the engine, once that was done I got impatient and popped it in without doing the alt belt, I wish I had waited now as that took a bloody age to sort with the engine fitted.

 

The dodgy earth was silly, the wires on the gearbox stud were the opposite way to my 8v, I reversed them and it's fine now. I know little about cables so I don't know why that happened!

 

Did a load of cable tidying on Wednesday, refitting gromets and making the whole conversion look a bit tidier including recutting the rear water hose as it was a tad long. Will pop up some new pictures this weekend

[Masekwm 2]

The last few weeks I feel like I've been going round in circles.

 

At the beginning of the month, I felt like I had to bleed the brakes and fit the airfilter, after that it would be down to the MOT place.

 

However, I've been running into constant issues.

 

* The gearbox leaked all the box oil when it was filled.

 

* The brakes wouldn't bleed

 

* The airfilter doesn't fit.

 

I'm now giving myself a deadline of the end of November to have the last little bits done, seeing the car sat on it's front wheels earlier gave me some drive to start stripping the rear drums.

[Masekwm 2]

I kept having problems with the Black shell when the car was complete the grill and radiator cowl wouldn't fit.

 

So, I ended up untilting the engine and sending the manifold to Miles to be modified. I finally finished putting it back together on the 14th April and found it still didn't fit.

 

Much annoyed, I went off to the birth of my child. Labour was so long that we ended up reading the net whilst we waited. There was no reason foir this contact. Meanwhile the Red 8v still hadn't sold.

 

So, I made a decision. The Black car was broken and last night, I loaded up trustly HLG with the 16v and drove it home.

 

 

This morning, I got cracking at 11am.

 

 

 

I managed to spill the entire 2l of gearbox oil, grr.

 

19.45

 

 

I've fitted:-

 

Eibach springs on Black Bilsteins, next job is to replace those with yellow Bilsteins.

BBM mounts all round.

Lightened flywheel

Xsara gearbox

Pugracing gear rods.

 

Easy conversion

[Masekwm 2]

Finally got the last bits together today and tidied up the wiring so that it appears to be a standard lowered 205.

 

I drove it round the block.

 

Holy s*it! It feels bloody quick.

 

Picked up a replacement beam yesterday to start on the back of the car.

[lfallgti 12]

I suspect you may garner a tad more interest if you put this back up for sale!

[Masekwm 2]

Yeah, I guess so, she won't be going anywhere until at least next summer.

 

Anthony came over last night with a set of 306 rear shocks for me, so once I finished on family duties today I got cracking on the beam. Easy job that I've been scared of for years, it took an hour to drop the beam but that stupid clamp was the problem and added another hour to the job. And then it rained so I had to stop for the evening.

 

 

The rear beam mounts had seen better days!

 

 

 

I'll hopefully get the replacement on tomorrow