The Ultimate Induction/management

[omega 82]

i think the question should have been "the ultimate induction/management for a engine(spec] to be used as(track/road}with lots of power at [top,bottom/complete rev range]".

 

but it is a long title.

[stefan 4]

I remember asking Sandy not to map it for lots of big peak power as I'm not normally a "high revs" kind of driver, but I prefer a good wide powerband in the midrange and also in the low range which makes for a nice fun "road car".

 

You do the maps the best you can for the whole rev range, you don't chose where to give the engine it's power/torque and where not to. Maybe you can play with the ignition a litlle bit, but…

This can be done to a degree with the lenght, diameter and shape of the trumpets, TB's and manifold, when talking just about the intake

[bales 1]

You do the maps the best you can for the whole rev range, you don't chose where to give the engine it's power/torque and where not to.

 

I was always under the impression that this is the exact thing you can do by shifting about inlet lengths/bores, cam timings, exhaust lengths etc etc

 

Hence why having things designed specifically to your engine and its characteristics is much better than simply saying X product off the shelf is the best...

[stefan 4]

OK then, does anybody know what was on the bloody 406 touring car?!

[mfield 20]

OK then, does anybody know what was on the bloody 406 touring car?!

 

Off the top of my head was it gold and green with ultron on the rear arches ?

[stefan 4]

Off the top of my head was it gold and green with ultron on the rear arches ?

 

 

oh,yes,yes, there was also the yellow blue with Esso on the hood!

[welshpug 1,666]

OK then, does anybody know what was on the bloody 406 touring car?!

 

a great big compromise due to the regs they had to run to

 

 

 

 

IIRC they had a very long tract terminated in trumpets with an airbox over them fed by a single throttle body, quite likely 8 injectors though its been a while since I saw any images of them.

 

In effect exactly what the standard gti6 manifold is but with a central feed and much longer runners.

 

no chance of fitting these into a 205 though

Edited July 7, 2010 by welshpug

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

i think the question should have been "the ultimate induction/management for a engine(spec] to be used as(track/road}with lots of power at [top,bottom/complete rev range]".

 

but it is a long title.

 

 

Seriously though, Stefan appears to be wanting to emulate/copy the performance or style of power delivery of the touring cars. This now means the target is a lot more narrow and understandable.

 

Some research into how touring cars are/were on 16v N/A engines is where his answers might be, however I am not confident duplicating them will produce either the results he really wants or a well behaved and satisfying car to drive on the road.

 

If he only wants it for the track, then so be it; but as I was saying orginally - and thanks to others for their comments which seem to support what I was saying all along - the 'ultimate' or 'best' of anything is application based, i.e. what do you want it for. So Capt K, me and others, would probably sacrifice 5 or 10bhp top end to have a fatter mid-range which is much more usable or accessible on the road.

 

If the engine's gonna spend its life between 5-8k rpm then you build everything and map it accordingly. This would even include injector selection as Sandy has said, because you won't need the resolution (and smoother running etc) at lower RPMs, just a good spray pattern and lots of fuel at high rpm, with an inlet system designed to get the right air in, i.e. lots.

 

Finally, duplicating a WTCC induction style of set-up as Welshpug has mentioned, doesn't seem that difficult, especially if it's very similar to a GTI6 inlet. This is why my non-ITB 16v engines all run the GTI6 inlet.

 

I'm sure there's more to it than that, and the WTCC set-up is a combination of this type of inlet with many other elements incorporated, such as cam profile, wide ports perhaps (due to high gas speeds being present most of the time because of typically high track speeds), high flow rate injectors, a non-road legal exhaust perhaps and (most importantly), mapping to suit the engine and application.

 

So yes, it'll produce high figures, maybe the highest which could be called the best, but is it really the engine and car you really want?

 

If so, I can assure you I will be fascinated to see what you produce and would/will support you all the way.

 

P.S. So I was never trying to piss on your bonfire or discourage you (Stefan) from discussing things or exploring new ground; but so much of this has been discussed and has been/is being tried and tested all over the world that it's not possible to bring it together without it being focussed on what the engine/car is for. I hope you see that now. Best of luck with whatever you choose, as it's always nice to see someone taking on a challenge.

[CaptainK 11]

So Capt K, me and others, would probably sacrifice 5 or 10bhp top end to have a fatter mid-range which is much more usable or accessible on the road.

Oh yes.... loving the more accessible power in the mid range for road driving in my ITB'd 205 GTi6. Its totally different to my FTO which is pretty much an "economy drive" up until 5500rpm at which point it turns into a barrel of fire and streaks off down the road like the Delorean in Back to the Future.