Replacement For 5154.08

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Hi all,

I refurbed and replaced my rear beam last year (2009's project) and recall all to well the general phaffing about with the arm seal. In my view this arrangement is more than a little over-engineered using an oil seal for what is essentially a moisture and road dirt barrier. It does also look very flimsy considering the nature of the environment it exists in.

In my ponderings on this matter (prior to the disassembly of the beam I removed last year) I think that it may be simpler to replace the seal with a neoprene O-ring. This would fit into the seal carrier as per usual and if required maybe a flat inner face to give a better seal with the outer bearing. I will look round for a suitable ring and let you know.

It also worth bearing in mind the cost differential would be considerable.

Just a thought.

regards

Dave

PS This is what I mean to replace.

 

 

[jimistdt 1]

Looks like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. How much are they from a dealer?

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Looks like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. How much are they from a dealer?

you reckon. You won't ever change bearings , seals or shafts then.

Of course the problem exists. The dealer price is £10.36. and I don't think a rubber o-ring would cost anything near that.

regards

Dave

[jimistdt 1]

Of course I do Dave. It is a wear and tear item, but I don't think the seal fails any quicker than the bearings do. I can sell you the bearings, rubber seal, and brass cup for both sides for £25.

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Of course I do Dave. It is a wear and tear item, but I don't think the seal fails any quicker than the bearings do. I can sell you the bearings, rubber seal, and brass cup for both sides for £25.

Hi,

Is it really a matter of which goes first? I thought that the general consensus was that it was the seal going that that let the crap in that caused the bearings to go. Even at your price the cost of a rubber ring must be less and also would be more resilient. My point is that paying (say) £3.00 once is a lot better than even your price of £25 - even if that's only every few years or so. Do you suggest we keep paying out merely because it's a "wear and tear" item.

I for one am a little more careful with my money.

regards

Dave

[Pugnut 9 1 Cars]

As well as the just the seal failing and letting in water; the bearings can and do wear into the radial tube, especially with stiffer/lower suspension. this then leads to gaps in the seal and the seal getting chewed up.

[jimistdt 1]

Well, it can't do any harm I suppose, neoprene has all the right qualities, it would be interesting to see a long term test in real conditions to see how well it holds up. Is the £3.00 the result of the preliminary enquiries?

[DanteICE 72]

I know this is a little unimportant, but most bearings fail due to 'Surface Fatigue' rather than wear, but they look almost the same after a while, it's just surface fatigue is far more severe in the damage caused.

 

Sorry I only just learnt about this the other day and I feel so clever!

 

Geoff

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Hi,

my original thoughts have always centered around the fact that the seal is so flimsy. The arm movement is fairly restricted over about 20 degrees of arc so ordinary rotation can't wear it out. What can and does wear it out is temperature, moisture, road salt and the myriad other bits od crap that act as an additional abrasive.

I think that the use of a rubber ring seal would provide a better overall barrier to the crap which inevitably will get in.

The compression of the ring generally improving the seal compared to that funny 1/2 seal.

I think it will be cheaper and as such think it merits a look at.

regards

Dave

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Hi,

Just to cap this topic off - polymax do a neoprene O ring of the correct size for £0.34p - plus P&P.

I'd be prepared to buy a few and try them at that price.

regards

Dave

[jimistdt 1]

How does the O-ring seal the gap between the brass coloured cup and the edge of the trailing arm? Unless, strictly speaking, it's not an O ring? Just trying to get a clear image in my head.

Edited June 1, 2010 by jimistdt

[Tom Fenton 1,540]

Having done my fair share of beams, if there were anything I would want to improve upon, it would be the poxy foam seal between the ARB end plate and the trailing arm. These in my opinion are more of a weak point than the rubber shaft seal.

 

PS Jimi- the seal carrier cup isn't brass- it is plated steel.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Tom Fenton

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Having done my fair share of beams, if there were anything I would want to improve upon, it would be the poxy foam seal between the ARB end plate and the trailing arm. These in my opinion are more of a weak point than the rubber shaft seal.

 

PS Jimi- the seal carrier cup isn't brass- it is plated steel.

Hi Tom,

I've just had a quick measure up with my vernier and Polymax "37X4N70" o ring at £0.34p could do the job.

Dave

[jimistdt 1]

I'm interested in this aspect, Dave. Excuse the rudimentry drawing.

Edited June 1, 2010 by jimistdt

[welshpug 1,655]

I don't see how you can improve on that seal, the yellow seal that Tom mentions is far more susceptible to letting water in due to its position, and as far as I can tell, is made from a Neoprene like material.

 

The seal is cheaper if you buy it a as Kit with the bearings, £20 a side less any discount last time I checked, or indeed £25 for both from Jimi.

[dch1950 37 1 Cars]

Hi,

Which seal do you mean W'pug ? The yellow one just looks like a foam ring to me - price isn't the point here it's improving on what is already used as far as I can see.

Jimi - with a 47mm I.D o ring of 3mm cross section in place of the current seal, you would get a better seal when the stainless cup passes through and presses up against the ring. Slight compression of this ring would improve the seal whereas with the the rather flimsy seal you run the risk of it crushing/tearing if a minimal "end float" gap isn't maintained.

Improving this seal is always possible - even if it means something as crude as a ring of non setting silicone run round the gap betwwen the carrier and the cup.

Worth thinking about in my opinion.

regards

Dave