Uprated Clutch For Turbo

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

So my turbo car ran all last year on a standard Mi16 clutch (215mm) with no problems, no clutch slip. This is with a rolling road indicated 195bhp and 278Nm.

 

Get the car out for this year and had the saga with the broken diff at the MOT.

 

When the diff was broken the clutch started to slip.

 

With the gearbox out I decided not to chance it and replaced the clutch with an LUK replacement. Well basically it is still slipping.

 

Setting off accelerating in lower gears it is OK. Into 4th and 5th, and especially accelerating hard from say 60mph, as it comes onto full boost the clutch does not hold. Regulate the boost a bit with the old right foot and it will hang on, but at the compromise of not being able to use full shove (no good at all!).

 

Anyway, so at the moment I am planning to take a lick off the flywheel to increase the clamping pressure a bit with the standard setup. I am a bit bemused as to why it was OK last year and is not now, the only real difference is that I've changed the rad around so there may be a bit more airflow through the intercooler than there was before.

 

If my flywheel mod doesn't work, what have others out there used on a 215mm flywheel in terms of uprated clutches? I'd like to avoid a paddle if possible.

 

Talk to me gents!

 

Thanks

Tom

[m_attt 31 1 Cars]

can i ask why you want to avoid paddle? i had loads of problems with slipping and various clutches so bit the bullet and went paddle, Went for a helix 4 paddle (awesome clutches) two options on friction plate, you will need cerametalic as mineral is only rated to 180lbft. They are rebuild able so will save alot of money when it eventually wears out.

 

I've driven with mine for a wile now and honestly its no difference from a normal clutch just heavier but only noticeable in prolonged traffic jams. but **** cant you launch the car with one, high revs not dump it but come off it sharpish and the car just goes.

[bales 1]

can i ask why you want to avoid paddle? i had loads of problems with slipping and various clutches so bit the bullet and went paddle, Went for a helix 4 paddle (awesome clutches) two options on friction plate, you will need cerametalic as mineral is only rated to 180lbft. They are rebuild able so will save alot of money when it eventually wears out.

 

I've driven with mine for a wile now and honestly its no difference from a normal clutch just heavier but only noticeable in prolonged traffic jams. but **** cant you launch the car with one, high revs not dump it but come off it sharpish and the car just goes.

 

However the gearbox, CV joints and driveshafts don't always like it!!

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I'd like to avoid the paddle if possible as I'm soon to be fitting a PAS rack, when that is done hopefully the Mrs will be able to use it from time to time.

 

However the thing I don't understand is that surely there are lots of folk out there running far more power and torque than me, so what clutches are they using?

 

I have emailed Helix for a price, so will see how eye-watering it is.

[m_attt 31 1 Cars]

tbh their not as bad as you would think.

 

if its any help, I got mine from sorensen road sport, hes a local place but has a big customer base and very helpfull.

 

clutch cover = £209.47

centre plate (ceramic) = £150.39

release b'ring = £24.55

 

vat = £67.27

 

total = £451.68, a scary number yes, but i got fed up with slipping clutches and not had a prob since.

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

Anyway, so at the moment I am planning to take a lick off the flywheel to increase the clamping pressure a bit with the standard setup.

 

 

Would this work Tom? I thought the Mi flywheel had an even surface all the way across, this idea would only work where the friction plate sits in a recess wouldn't it?

[sonofsam 5]

http://www.specclutch.com/cars/Peugeot/405/1989/Single ~ surprised it doesnt give torque ratings there (they are quick to reply via email though)

 

SPEC Are supposed to be good, I'll be using one on my MX turbo, so do alot of people stateside!

(cheaper to order from USA Btw)

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Would this work Tom? I thought the Mi flywheel had an even surface all the way across, this idea would only work where the friction plate sits in a recess wouldn't it?

It may look like it has a level surface, but look carefully and you will see otherwise!

 

I've sent SPEC an email- will see what they come up with. I'm off to the states in less than 4 weeks as well.

Edited May 26, 2010 by Tom Fenton

[Rippthrough 98]

Machining might not increase the clamp at all Tom, being a diagphram spring the force follows an S-curve, I'd take some measurements first anyway.

 

The easiest thing for you would be to get or make yourself a pressure plate with a slightly thicker diagphram, the clutch'll be a bit heavier but it's easier to put up with than the bit of chatter you could see from a paddle.

Alternatively I've got a kevlar clutch in mine - it was a prototype from CG, but I'm not sure if they can still do them - it'll cope with a little more heat, about 15% or so more torque, and it engages as smoothly as a standard clutch (with less wear)

Edited May 26, 2010 by Rippthrough

[whizzer71 0]

I'd like to avoid the paddle if possible as I'm soon to be fitting a PAS rack, when that is done hopefully the Mrs will be able to use it from time to time.

 

However the thing I don't understand is that surely there are lots of folk out there running far more power and torque than me, so what clutches are they using?

 

I have emailed Helix for a price, so will see how eye-watering it is.

 

We use Gti6 reverse pull clutch and flywheel on our beast it was a 2nd hand clutch from an engine that had done 30k and its prob since done around 20k still not slipping despite all the abuse it gets

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Well I've been having an email conversation with the guy from SPEC and I have to say so far I'm impressed. They do a big range of different options all with different suggested max torque levels. In with this there are also full face friction plate as well as paddle clutches.

At the moment I'm discussing a full face clutch that will have smooth take up, but will also be good for 280-290 ftlb.

 

I'm off to the states in just under 4 weeks as well, so this could work out nicely.

[[L'e$kro] 2]

A cheap a reliable solution is to use a 230mm setup from the me/ml gearbox which is on the late 8v turbo'ed cars

You'll need the 8v turbo 230mm flywheel + its clutch mechanism

You'll also need a 230mm disc with 19 spline instead of the 21spline one from the 8v turbo. It exists in some newer Peugeots (206 Gti 180??)

The clutch mechanism being thicker, it will foul the bell-housing in BE gearboxes, so you have to machine down 3mm from the flywheel or grind some meat from the bell-housing

 

 

Nicolas

Edited June 8, 2010 by [L'e$kro]

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

Nicolas, thank you for the good information, I did not know that.

 

I have now ordered a clutch from SPEC that is apparently good for 290ft lb, so that should certainly do the trick.

 

Thanks

Tom

[Hilgie 16 2 Cars]

Helix clutches do fine. Expensive though...performance comes at a price.

 

Also good experiences with OMP pressure plate with Alcon clutchdisc. (EricYellow, 466bhp)

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I did enquire about a Helix clutch- but it worked out over double the cost of the SPEC, hence giving the SPEC a try. The guy I spoke to was confident about his quoted torque capacity.

[jelle_zwikstra 0]

which release bearing is used with the 230mm clutch mechanism?

[Arahan 4]

I had exactly the same problem in my 2.0 8v turbo, fine in lower gears but when putting your foot down in 4th / 5th it would slip and you could smell it too.

 

I bought one off a guy on here (James_R? could be wrong my memorys not what it used to be!). It was a valeo competition clutch, and I never had any problems with it slipping / burning while I had that car, it wasnt brand new either when I got it, from memory 900miles of use or so. Maybe Grantley could post as to whether he had any problems with it after he bought the car off me?

 

Hope this helps, though it seems you may be sorted now anyway!

 

- James

[Daxed 7]

However the thing I don't understand is that surely there are lots of folk out there running far more power and torque than me, so what clutches are they using?

 

 

 

Tom,

 

Am running the low boost Lynx supercharged GTI-6 through a standard MI16 clutch to a Xsara 5 speed box.

 

Several thousand miles now covered all trouble free.

[maxi 36 1 Cars]

Tom, as Im sure you are aware, I run 241BHP and 181Ibft torque on a std VALEO mi16 clutch. I have never, ever had a problem with it, launches, full throttle changes, no problem. I have heard that non Valeo items can be pony, maybe thats the issue?

 

Maxi

[Mad Scientist 106]

Tom wants to run more than 50% more torque through the clutch than you Maxi, and clutch performance is all about torque.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Around 230 Ft Lb's of torque I know the Std 215 Valeo one just starts to slip so I would say you would't want more than 200 thru it really

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

When I phoned Valeo technical they told me that the 1.9 Mi clutch was good up to 275 nm which is approx 202 lb ft.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

An update in my case, the standard Mi16 clutch once it had bedded in will now just about hold the torque my car makes. The rolling road suggested 211 ft.lb so the figures quoted for the clutch torque capacity are about right.

It is right on the edge though, slip it much in traffic and get it hot and it really is marginal under full boost in higher gears.

 

However I can cope with it and so rather than remove the box again to fit the SPEC clutch I have I will wait until I really need to fit it.

[205turbo 32 2 Cars]

I'm having the same problem now. We had the car rolling roaded and it 255ftlbs and the heavy duty 405 td clutch is starting to feel the burn.

 

Has anyone fitted a spec clutch as I'm looking to order one.

 

Cheers

[allanallen 528 2 Cars]

Steel toms, he's getting married next month so he'll never use it, ever!