N/s 309 Gti Driveshaft Into My 1.9 Gti

[tommybGTI 0]

Hello all. I've searched for this but can't quite find the answer. I've just bought a set of 309 gti driveshafts because my race car is killing standard 205 shafts in 5 minutes.

 

O/S went in fine, no problems. The N/S goes into the box and hub but then I can't re-align the bottom ball joint, its off but about 15mm. I know the 309 gti shafts are longer but i just assumed you would get more thread through on the hub nut.

 

Can someone help?

 

Thankyou.

 

NOTE - I have a gripper LSD.

Edited May 20, 2010 by tommybGTI

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

My mate had this and GSF had supplied him with a 306 shaft!

 

What's part number?

[tommybGTI 0]

My mate had this and GSF had supplied him with a 306 shaft!

 

What's part number?

 

Hi Paul. I bought the shafts from Spoox.

 

http://www.spoox.co.uk/catalog/product_inf...c66c856b1cd199e

 

Haven't got the part numbers to hand at the moment...

[tommybGTI 0]

Spoox are now telling me i need 309 wishbones as well, does this sound right?

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

....

 

If it's killing 205 shafts, it'll kill 309 shafts.

 

Is this happening when your going round corners i.e. cv joint is popping out?

 

Ideally you need 309 wishbones with 309 driveshafts, but people have been known to run just the 309 wishbones and get away with it.

 

 

From your first post it seemed to me you had 309 wishbones. They're 10mm longer than 205 shafts, that is the only difference. The 309 shafts are not stronger.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Paul_13

[SurGie 54]

There are a few 205s out there with 309 shafts and 205 bones, so they can work together but it just depends on your car i suppose.

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

I think there is another underlying problem you have missed mate.

 

Pics?

 

What condition are your top mount bearings and rubbers in? I'm thinking maybe the bearings are shot which is causing the strut to move and pull the driveshaft out, thus wrecking it.

This happened on my mates 106, went through 5 driveshafts before he realise the bearings were disintegrated.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Paul_13

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

As said if your killing 205 shafts 309 one's won't make any differance at all.

Be very wary of 309 Wishbone's as Motaquip the only good supplier of these in std form don;t supply them any more so it's only the poor quality one's now I;m afraid, You can change the bush's but even the ball joint's don't last long.

 

I'd think about some modified wishbone's with Rose joint's fitted instead of the ball joint, You can adjust to suit your needs then and with sticky tyres the std set up will not make use of them at all.

 

That's allot of money for some shaft's, even without an exchange

[tommybGTI 0]

Thanks for all the replies.

 

At the moment i haven't got 309 wishbones, just the standard 205 Gti ones. The 309 Gti O/S shaft has gone in ok (it seems) but the N/S is too long for the wishbone and bottom ball joint.

 

I've been told from other people that race 205 Gti's that the 309 Gti shafts are stronger, and they're yet to brake a set. I'm told the reason im destroying 205 shafts is because of the power i have, probably over the nearing 170 mark?

 

Could you point me in the direction of these good 309 wishbones with rose joints?

 

Cheers guys.

Tom.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

I;ve got to say this and any one who know's Pugs will agree with me, The good old Rumor mill/Pub talk there saying that 309 shafts are stronger, It's like the old one of Derv box's being stronger too, Of which there is no differance at all

 

170bhp is nothing for 205 or 309 shafts (Other PSA car's use the same design too), Even with over 200bhp they last, and to give you an idea a 205 Turbo I did a while back run's 220bhp and 240ft lb torque on std shafts with no problems and a Diff installed.

 

I can supply the 205 Bones with adjustable rose joint's as can a couple of other's, All I can say is mine have been tried and tested in Race and Rally car's with good result's

 

It's a funny old world the Pug scene as no doubt other's are the same, Only a very few companie's/People know what there doing and allot are just after your money and having been with Pug's from 1988 (am I that old ) I;ve seen most come and go.

[tommybGTI 0]

Hi Miles

 

Thanks for the reply. All I am going on is advice from someone else that i race with, who also has a 205 gti. I told him i'd been up the night before putting in new (205) driveshafts and he said, "they'll be knackered by the end of the race." He is using 309 shafts and bones and hasn't had the problem since. I guess all i can do is see how they get on at Snett next month, and report back?

 

Tom.

[tommybGTI 0]

Hello guys.

 

So last night i set about putting the 309 wishbones and driveshafts on. O/S is all good. N/S still being a problem. Even though the 309 wishbones are longer it still doenst seem to have made a difference, its still probably 5mm off being able to get the bottom ball joint into the hub.

 

Anyone got any suggestions or had this problem? What can i do?

 

Do the 309 shafts need different seals to allow more of the shaft into the gearbox, just one thing i've thought of.

 

Any help is really appreciated.

 

Tom.

[welshpug 1,655]

same seals required, sounds like you may have a bent subframe or drive-train mounting issues, possibly shell alignment if you cannot get one side in and it is the correct shaft, this may explain why your old shafts did not last.

 

measure the overall length of the shaft, it may be a 306 one if all is good with the mountings and subframe.

Edited June 2, 2010 by welshpug

[tommybGTI 0]

Interesting. I'll measure it. Do you know what length a 306 one is compared to a 309?

 

Thanks.

Tom.

[welshpug 1,655]

309 is 576mm compressed -

 

http://www.elcome.co.uk/xplorerlite/AMK/In...p;sFromApps=yes

 

306 is circa 600 to 610mm -

 

http://www.elcome.co.uk/xplorerlite/AMK/In...p;sFromApps=yes

 

http://www.elcome.co.uk/xplorerlite/AMK/In...p;sFromApps=yes

 

http://www.elcome.co.uk/xplorerlite/AMK/In...p;sFromApps=yes

 

all from http://www.elcome.co.uk/xplorerlite/AMK/

 

[tommybGTI 0]

Thanks welsh.

 

I need to get it back out of the car and measure it.

 

Nightmare.

[tommybGTI 0]

So I worked out last night why this isnt working.

 

Took off the new "309" wishbone on the N/S and heres what i found.

 

 

Its a 205 wishbone! Grrrrrr.

[tommybGTI 0]

Just incase anyone is reading this i thought i'd update. It was a 309 wishbone. The problem was i wasn't pushing the driveshaft far enough into the gearbox. I didn't know you had to give it a real good shove in, i was just getting it to the point where the seal was touching the enlarged piece of metal down the spline.

 

So - job done.

 

Tom.

[tommybGTI 0]

Job not done.

 

Had a test day yesterday and the n/s shaft had no play in it because it was forced in so tight to make it line up with the lower ball joint.

 

Result = lots of knocking, and test day cut very short.

[Guest rallyingbear]

with reference to the 309 shafts and bones topic.

 

I am running a 180 bhp mi16 on a quaiffe atb diff with a BE3 1.9 box with 4.4 cwp and have never had an issue with driveshafts breaking!! (running standard 205 1.9 gti shafts with approx 1.5 degrees neg camber)

 

I am led to believe that the reason people use 309 gti shafts in a 205 is when you are running more than 1.5 degrees negative camber as this will effectively push the wheels out a little and in turn puts more stress on the CV joints causing them to fail! This risk is reduced with 309 shafts due to their extra length and the 2 parts of the CV joint are kept nicely together.

 

 

good luck!

[Baz 421]

I am running a 180 bhp mi16 on a quaiffe atb diff with a BE3 1.9 box with 4.4 cwp and have never had an issue with driveshafts breaking!! (running standard 205 1.9 gti shafts with approx 1.5 degrees neg camber)

 

I am led to believe that the reason people use 309 gti shafts in a 205 is when you are running more than 1.5 degrees negative camber as this will effectively push the wheels out a little and in turn puts more stress on the CV joints causing them to fail! This risk is reduced with 309 shafts due to their extra length and the 2 parts of the CV joint are kept nicely together.

 

 

good luck!

 

Or when just using 309 wishbones that give roughly 1degree of neg.

 

It must be said, none of that is news i'm afraid, there's plenty of people running alot more power and harsher diffs on standard shafts, and the issue has never been the shafts breaking per-se.

 

And for the record, advertising and phone numbers aren't allowed, so you'll probably find the first part of your reply removed, otherwise, welcome!

Edited November 15, 2010 by Baz