Help Needed Mi16 309gti - Middlesbrough Area

[THREEONINE 0]

Hi, I was wondering if there is anyone on Teesside with a 205 or 309 with 1.9 MI16 conversion using M4.1 and the relevant wiring that could help me sort my running issues ?

 

The car will not rev cleanly and cuts violently at approx 2500 -3000 rpm.

 

I've done all the searches, changed all the bits as advised.

 

2 row 139 ECU, IGN AMP, ECU TEMP SWITCH, checked the AF M, Changed the CPS, the coil, the plug leads, the rotor cap and arm. Added, cleaned and tidied the earths. Checked the loom and the plugs but.......

 

Still have the same problem. When I fitted the replcement ecu it ran fine for a few miles then seemed to re-learn the same problem. Now it has exactly the same issues.

 

If any one local can help out with this nightmare, I would be over the moon. I live out int stick Guisborough way.

 

She's been off the road for nearly 6 months trying to get this sorted. Long story, loads of money spent with no result = Gutted!

 

Hope you can help.

 

Best Regards,

 

Ste

[jackherer 543]

I had a problem like this caused by a starter motor once, it turned over fine but must have had some sort of internal short that was interfering with the voltage to the ECU. I had no clue what was causing the bad running and changed everything like you and also fitted a new loom and fuel tank/fuel. Eventually the starter started smoking really badly so I changed it and was surprised to find the car then ran fine.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

have you had a look at the crank sensor? If this is on its last legs it may be providing a signal when engine speed is low, but be unable to read the teeth as the engine speed increases. On the Mi the crank signal controls both ignition and fuel.

[Tommer 0]

does it have a tachy relay? poss a bit dodge?

[jackherer 543]

have you had a look at the crank sensor? If this is on its last legs it may be providing a signal when engine speed is low, but be unable to read the teeth as the engine speed increases. On the Mi the crank signal controls both ignition and fuel.

 

Changed the CPS

[THREEONINE 0]

Hi Thanks for the fast replies.

 

I'll have a look at the starter and the alty, just in case.

 

The CPS was changed and I even tried a new one again to make sure the 1st new one wasnt on the fritz.

 

I don't think it has a tachy relay fitted now. It was removed when the install happened in December.

 

The rev cut coincides with the rev counter going crazy ivy too.

 

Without going into who did what and slagging companies off, I bought the engine and ecu as a plug and play affair that never really happened right from day 1 onwards.

 

The loom was sourced from a BX, everything was installed in December and she ran without issue electrically. Then 20 miles later the bottom end went.

 

I sent the whole thing back and the supplier honoured the sale by removing the engine, rebuilding it and put it back into my car again.

 

But, he couldnt get it to run above 3k rpm. Due to space restrictions at his place, I ended up bringing the car home at the end of March but have not got to the bottom of the problem to this date.

I hope its not a mechanical issue thats causing the electrical / signal issues. I dont think I can deal with the engine coming out again and have to have it stripped.

 

The supplier / builder reccons everything that came off went back on! One thing I'm worried about is if he's not fitted the correct fly wheel or something unseen like that ??

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Ste

[jackherer 543]

It wont have a tachymetric relay but the BX 16v loom does have two relays that you should check, the connections to them sometimes become loose.

[THREEONINE 0]

It wont have a tachymetric relay but the BX 16v loom does have two relays that you should check, the connections to them sometimes become loose.

 

 

Thanks Again, will try theses too.

 

They are the Fuel injector and ecu relays aren't they ?

 

I have them fixed to the space where you 205 boys have your jacks.

 

If they are knacked, where can I get them from ???

 

Also. I've read on here about the Bosch blue ... 123 Ignition Amp being fussy. Before I got even more in depth / debt with this I changed it for an Andrew Page sourced Intermotor one but then found that you fellas are saying genuine good working old ones are the ones to get hold of.

 

I have spoken to a company who look after a lot of these cars and have been really helpful but they reccon the after market ones will be fine.

 

This is where someone local who doesn't mind taking bits off there's to try on mine would be smashin! I think I've paid enough to the after market car parts companies already this month!!

 

Again, thanks for the help. You have no idea how much I appreciate it right now.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Dub 2 Pug

[jackherer 543]

Yes they're the injection and ECU relays, they are just normal automotive relays, not something exotic and rare like the 8v tachy relay

 

If you look at the diagram on the top of the relay and the amp rating you will have no trouble sourcing replacements.

 

This is where someone local who doesn't mind taking bits off there's to try on mine would be smashin!

 

Your location isn't that clear, it should be in town/county format.

 

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[THREEONINE 0]

Yes they're the injection and ECU relays, they are just normal automotive relays, not something exotic and rare like the 8v tachy relay

 

If you look at the diagram on the top of the relay and the amp rating you will have no trouble sourcing replacements.

 

 

 

Your location isn't that clear, it should be in town/county format.

 

Ok, I'll get cracking with the relays too.

 

I've amended my location as well. oops

 

Cheers,

 

Ste

[THREEONINE 0]

Hi, just a quick update.

 

Changed the relays for generic ones we had at the garage. I thought you lads had sussed it for me. The engine fired up and spluttered through the 2000 to 4000rpm "problem area" rev range without rev limiting.

 

I thought it was going to be a case of resetting the airflow and co's / fueling and away we'd be but as soon as the engine got warm, the rev limiting was back again. Dammmmmn You 309 !

 

I've got my old starter motor and alternator to try next. to rule those out.

 

Any reason why a different relay would present itself with a spluttery rev range, rather than the rev limiting issues when cold. the develop back into the rev limiting problem when warmed up ? ECU learning the new relay and going into safe mode as the problem is detected ??

 

What's the quickest way to fault code read the ecu? I've printed a load of results from the search but I'm still not 100% on how to do it.

 

Will the 309 have a code reader light on the dash?

 

Any hoo, enough questions already.

 

Cheers,

 

Ste

[S@m 156]

I have had this intermittent random cutting out problem at revs, and i will add to the "dodgy connections around the fuel injection relay" argument. Even a new relay might not be the issue, check the connections to the back of the relay plug; give them a wiggle when the engine is running if you can. Although, i have noticed towards the end of this post you talk more about it being a rev limiter kind of problem, rather than violent momentary cutting out, this would lead me to think its more ignition amp related, and definetly get a bosch one, intermotor ones dont work from new! (in my experience at least).

Regards

Sam

[THREEONINE 0]

I have had this intermittent random cutting out problem at revs, and i will add to the "dodgy connections around the fuel injection relay" argument. Even a new relay might not be the issue, check the connections to the back of the relay plug; give them a wiggle when the engine is running if you can. Although, i have noticed towards the end of this post you talk more about it being a rev limiter kind of problem, rather than violent momentary cutting out, this would lead me to think its more ignition amp related, and definetly get a bosch one, intermotor ones dont work from new! (in my experience at least).

Regards

Sam

 

Hi Sam,

 

Thanks for the reply. I'm working on the relays and the connections on the plug when I can after work. With regards to the Ign amp, I 've had this bad feeling about the intermotor one right from the start. My original one is a blue top Bosch one and there was no difference between the two when they were changed about and back again.

 

The rev limit thing, is dificult to describe in words but .....

 

If I hold the throttle by the butterfly under the bonnet at 2-2.5k rpm, the revs will rise and fall - pulsing to 3k and back to under 2k consistantly even though the throttle has stayed in the same place without any movement at all.

 

On the road, the 2-3k issue manifests itself as a violent cut, shudder like a boost cut in a turbo charged car.

 

I'm sure the two are the same issue but on the road the car is under load.

 

I'll sort out a new Bosch one as soon as I can.

 

Thanks again.

 

Ste

[pug309twin40s 1]

i had a similar fault with my goodwood when it was last on the road and it was the rotor arm(was a brand new arm), re fitted the old rotor arm and engine was fine again.

 

worth fitting another rotor arm if you have a spare.

 

also the intermotor ign amps are pants.. i've brought coulple new ones before and they never worked!! now only use the genuine bosch ones.

[THREEONINE 0]

i had a similar fault with my goodwood when it was last on the road and it was the rotor arm(was a brand new arm), re fitted the old rotor arm and engine was fine again.

 

worth fitting another rotor arm if you have a spare.

 

also the intermotor ign amps are pants.. i've brought coulple new ones before and they never worked!! now only use the genuine bosch ones.

 

Hi, Thanks for your reply. When I put the new Beru cap and arm on, it didn't make any difference to the ones I took off. I changed that many bits with no difference, I'm losing track of them all.

 

I've got a genuine good working Bosch one on the way and the loan of the Good Working AFM too. Fingers crossed after they are fitted.

 

If my battery was putting out 12.5 - 13 volts on tick over but drops off into the 12v's when the engine is being revved, could this be the cause or just something else that needs sorting. The ecu is supposed to receive 13.5 - 15.9 volts according to CAPS.

 

Once again thanks for your help.

 

Ste

[pug309twin40s 1]

sounds like the alternator is shot..

 

should be 13-14v at idle and above 14v or above when revved!

[THREEONINE 0]

sounds like the alternator is shot..

 

should be 13-14v at idle and above 14v or above when revved!

 

 

Thanks again.

 

Changed the alternator for the original 8v one but that could well be goosed as well. I'll have to source a new one and try that next.

 

Changed the starter motor too but that made no difference.

 

Changed the airflow meter and the ign amp for good working ones but still no good.

 

 

Where next after the alternator ?

 

The loom, injectors, pump ???

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

Ste

Edited May 24, 2010 by Dub 2 Pug