205 Sprint Racing Setup

[cagedbanana 0]

Hope some of you can help out there

im new here

have had my 205 for about 6 months now and race it in a little series we have donw my way, just on an old airfeild

the car in question is a yellow rallye

with what i belive to be an S16 engine in

the car has bilstein rear shocks

not sure of the front set up

a rear 1.9 GTI beam with rear discs

and omp roll cage etc etc

 

 

The sprint race regulations are quite lean, any tyres are acceptable as long as tread is visable, or cut slicks, wheels can stick out of the arches etc etc. the track isnt long enough to get out of second gear... around 70mph max, but is always very twisty and tight, so the emphasis is on good handling and good acceleration

Here are my plans for a pure track set up

but please feel free to tell me if my time and money would be best spent else where

lower the rear end another notch...or two, to bring the car level, a 306 gti-6/307/406 coupe front brake convertion

increase the track of the car by fitting wheel spacers and hopefully some 8J wide rims with some sticky rubber

futher plans include plexying the windows and moving the battery to the rear

 

a few pics of the car in the hope this might aid setup?

Edited May 6, 2010 by cagedbanana

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

Hi Chris,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

What Bilstein shocks have you got fitted? The black standard Bilstein replacements are worse than standard shocks but the yelow B6 shocks are among the best you can get.

 

It might be worth having a look a look at some of GTi6Boy's posts, he has a 205 Rallye that has won at USC & might give you some interesting ideas.

 

You can drop the rear any amount, by the mm increments if you remove the torsion bar from the radius arm & centre tube lugs by adjusting the shock absorber mounting bolt distances & rotating the torsion bars until the push freely back home.

 

How is your rear beam mounted & its it still on standard sized torsion & antiroll bars? If these are free a good step would be to uprate them but tey aren't cheap, at least a thicker rear arb will help though.

 

Graham.

[oli-pug 6 2 Cars]

Seeing as the track is very tight and twisty, I'd say your best plan would be to fit a limited-slip diff (if you don't already have one of course), a quick rack, power steering and a hydraulic handbrake

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

I would agree get it sitting level, at the moment you'll be pushing weight bias forward with that ride height imbalance which will contribute to less rear-end grip. Whether you lower the rear or raise the front is up to you, depends how much ride height/clearance you have.

 

Wouldn't mess with track or wheel spacers.

 

A lot of it would depend on precise details of what you're got up front and on the back, torsion-bar and ARB wise.

 

You could also play around with tyre pressures and compounds, particularly if the runs are so short that no heat is getting into the back - run a real soft tyre on the rear compared to the front, or run lower pressure on the back to get heat into them quicker. You'd have to have a play around. But ultimately the back is going to be 'loose' by design that's what make's the nimble!

[welshpug 1,655]

I wouldnt lower the rear at all looking at the pictures, I'd be raising the front especially if they arent particularly stiff dampers, that'll help your oversteery feeling.

 

also, when you get the oversteering, are you lifting off the throttle? if so, dont....

[cagedbanana 0]

Ok

to answer a few questions

my suspension setup turns out to be well not that good

the billsteins are definately black ones and the fronts, well no clue

nice to see the previous owner was telling the truth about a full billstein tarmac suspension set up

so i have invested in some GAZ coilovers being sold on this forum... hope thats a wise idea

the track is very twisted like stated so confused as to how not to lift, but some driving tips might well be needed as well as setup too

 

i thought the back looked quite high.. i must confess that that race was being run on a FULL tank of fuel, to bring the rear end down a bit

 

but was contemplating flaring the arches to accomadate the lowness

 

i also dont belive it has an LSD... but there MEGA arent they? and really hard to fit? not sure i could justify that expense for the series

[cagedbanana 0]

I should also add that the title is possibly a tad misleading

i love oversteer...but the issue with the car is thers none...none....none....then your off.

admitadely my driving style might have to be altered to suit a 205 as i used to race a mazda mx3

but generally thought my setup would be contributing to this aswell

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Well suspension won't help, of course, but without being in the car it's hard to get a feel for what's happening. It could be so much to blame - general setup, ride height, subframe mounts, suspension bushes, knackered arms, poor tyre choice or just simply driver style! A diff certainly helps but given your words above I wouldn't put it as the prime candidate right now - like you say, you're looking at £500 and there's other places to spend that money first by the sounds of things. Keeping your foot in is one key skill to learn though, particularly on the fast ringpiece-twitching stuff

 

I'll restrain myself from punting my Bilstein coilovers your way - oops, there you go, I've gone and done it now

[Tesstuff 222]

You mention not getting out of second gear so a change to some 14" 106 Rallye steels would improve your acceleration if fitted with the right profile tyre.

 

Compared to the 15" Speedlines you have it would be beneficial.

 

The only thing to think about is if the smaller wheel and tyre combo would make second too short and you hit the limiter.

 

[Rich_p 23]

It will be worth you checking the size of the TB's and arb on the back incase either of them have been uprated, that will help you decide on front Spring rate to when you get your coilovers.

 

Have you uprated the rear beam mounts at all? If not that can create a lairy rear end if they are knackered.

[Batfink 201]

The 15" wheels are rather heavy too. I much prefered my rallye by moving to 106 rallye 13" wheels. Gives better clearance at the rear too.

[cagedbanana 0]

can you get 13"

over gti brakes?

cheers

chris

[TT205 42]

As someone mentioned above the rear beam mounts are a big factor in lift off oversteer - replace them with solid one's

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

can you get 13" over gti brakes?

Yes over standard sized brakes (247mm) but I'm not sure if there are clearance issues depending on what make of calipers you have.

 

You say your rear Bilstein shocks are black, these are general viewed as (far) worse than standard so I'd swap them for either some decent standard 205 GTI (& 306 GTI-6) rear shocks or a higher spec yellow Bilstein & match the front with a decent uprated set to suit.

 

An LSD is about the best ~£500 you can spend on a lightly modified car used in competition & they aren't hard to fit. There is a guide to fitting a Quaife ATB on the main website.

 

The lowest you want to go is so the wishbones are just inclined upwards from the hub tothe subframe so you don't suffer from bump steer to much when cornering imo.

 

Graham.

[cagedbanana 0]

Yes over standard sized brakes (247mm) but I'm not sure if there are clearance issues depending on what make of calipers you have.

 

You say your rear Bilstein shocks are black, these are general viewed as (far) worse than standard so I'd swap them for either some decent standard 205 GTI (& 306 GTI-6) rear shocks or a higher spec yellow Bilstein & match the front with a decent uprated set to suit.

 

An LSD is about the best ~£500 you can spend on a lightly modified car used in competition & they aren't hard to fit. There is a guide to fitting a Quaife ATB on the main website.

 

The lowest you want to go is so the wishbones are just inclined upwards from the hub tothe subframe so you don't suffer from bump steer to much when cornering imo.

 

Graham.

 

ive gone and purchased a GAZ coilover setup

front and back so will hopefull see some improvement

and then by the sounds of it, when money permits,looks like im going for a diff!