306 Td Wont Start After Changing The Pump

[Rob Turbo 3]

I changed the diesel pump on my 306 TD from a lucas to a bosch yesterday, fitted a new timing belt while I was at it, all timed up correctly etc. but the pump wont ermm, pump! I primed the system with the squeezy bulb thing (very technical description, I know!), cracked off the pump feed union and pumped until diesel came out then nipped it up again, tried to start it but no joy. I've tried loosening the nuts that hold the injector lines on and nothing comes out, even while cranking.

 

I've been towed around the block a few times and it doesn't even try to start. The stop solenoid clicks when the ignition is turned on, I've even tried a wire straight from the battery to the stop solenoid and it's still exactly the same.

 

Even if the timing was miles out or something it would still at least pump I would have thought?

 

The pump was off ebay, obviously sold as being removed from a running engine, the injectors and lines (not that it matters, there's no diesel even getting that far) are off pugtorque. Before fitting the pump I tried spinning the pulley, it didn't just spin freely, it sort of felt like turning a cam, an easy bit then some resistance, then an easy bit then some resistance and so on. Is this normal for a bosch pump?

 

I'm trying to find a big enough spanner to get the stop solenoid out just to make sure it's not sticking, would it still click even if the plunger was sticking? (I've tried hitting the stop solenoid and the surrounding area incase it was just stuck from sitting or something. I don't think it's been sitting on a shelf for ages, it looked used and there was diesel in it when I got it (which I managed to get on the kitchen floor when I opened it!) It also doesn't look like it's been tampered with at all, all the nuts and bolts look untouched.

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks,

Rob

[205turbo 32 2 Cars]

the pumps are coded, did you get the matching unit from the car

[Rob Turbo 3]

There's no immobiliser on it, you can get at the stop solenoid easily and the wire from the plug goes straight to it.

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Odd..

 

Thats normal for a bit of resistance when you turn the pulley, there's a cam plate on the inside that actuates the head.

 

Does sound like a timing issue, have you played around with the three bolts that hold the pump onto the bracket?

 

Get someone to crank it while you hold the pump and rotate it with your hands, we had to do this on ryan's.

 

EDIT: Would try a new/working solenoid aswell

Edited April 25, 2010 by Paul_13

[Rob Turbo 3]

I haven't touched the timing bolts, but it's not pumping diesel anywhere, not even at the right time! With the pipes off the injectors no diesel comes out while cranking.

 

We tried cutting the bottom off a bottle, with a hose going from the neck to the fuel inlet pipe, put diesel in the bottle and it didn't go down, like it's not sucking the diesel in.

 

Would the solenoid still click if it wasn't working? When I get a big enough spanner I'm going to take the plunger out of the solenoid and see if it makes any difference.

Edited April 25, 2010 by Rob Turbo

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Sorry should of reread your post about no diesel getting through.

 

Must be a solenoid problem or the pump is seriously gunked up.

 

Diesel pumps do seem to seize up when left standing for a while.

[welshpug 1,657]

does the priming bulb go hard? it's often difficult to get al the air out of the lines when the one way valve in them fail.

[Rob Turbo 3]

Not hard really, it can still be pressed, the one way valve in it was broke so today I fitted a seperate one way valve just after the bulb, so it is pumping diesel through and it makes a fair ammount of pressure in the lines, after pumping it up, I slackened the union on the inlet to the pump and diesel sprayed everywhere!

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

It might be worth trying a new fuel filter, thats all that was stopping my old STDT running when I'd swapped pumps from Lucas to Bosch.

 

Graham.

[ryan_stdt 2]

very odd

I know your not getting any diesel through but did you change the stud pattern on the bracket the hold the pump to the engine. The bosch pumps do have alot of resistance compared to the lucas one.

 

Is the pump covered in rust on the outside that's normally a good way of telling if it's been left outside meaning it could be seized up, I think the solenoid needs a 24mm spanner but if it's clicking is should be working.

As paul said lossen the 4 pump bolts and rock the pump back and forth while someone cranks it over

[Rob Turbo 3]

I pulled the stop solenoid out today after work with this amazing tool!

 

 

 

 

Modified by my dad while I was at work!

 

Anyhoo, once I got it out I removed the plunger and spring, put it back in, gave it a whirl and it started to splutter like it's going to start but the battery died. I've got the battery on charge now, tomorrows plan is to crack the injector pipes off to make sure theres no air in them, shouldn't be now I wouldn't have thought but you never know! Then slacken the pump off to adjust the timing.

 

Once it's running I'm going to test the solenoid and try putting the plunger and spring back in the solenoid to see if it was just sticking due to sitting.

 

I'm in no real hurry to get it 100% sorted, I've borrowed one of the work vans for a few days so the longer I don't drive the 306 the better, I don't pay for the diesel in the vans!!

[ryan_stdt 2]

I'm not 100% but without the spring in the solenoid it mite not turn off on the key, I never worry about the air in the lines after a few cranks it always clears itself

[Rob Turbo 3]

I know! At least I know what the problem is though.

[Rob Turbo 3]

I got it to run, badly! I cracked the pipes off the injectors and cranked it a bit, then nipped them up and it fired and would sort of tick over but wouldn't rev. I then loosened the pump, fired it up then pulled the pump about, if I pulled the top of the pump forwards it would get worse so I pushed it back as and it just went back to how it was before, no matter how far back I pushed it.

 

Sometimes it will rev a bit, but most of the time when I press the accelerator nothing happens, no splutter or anything, it's as if I hadn't touched the accelerator at all.

 

Seeing as I could now fire it up I put the stop solenoid back together and it works fine now, must have been jammed shut!

 

My dad thinks there's still air in the system and that's why it won't rev, should I just fire it up and leave it ticking over to see if it will clear or could it be something else?

 

Thanks,

Rob

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Did you use the backing plate off the bosch pump? You may need to move some studs about.

 

If not this restricts how much it moves when you do the timing. The pump should be at the same slanted angle as the head.

[Rob Turbo 3]

The pump came with a backing plate and I haven't touched it so I assume the studs are in the right place, with the pump slackened you can push it back so much that the boost compensator almost goes under the intercooler.

 

I've just been back down poking around with it and it's back to not starting. I tried cracking the pipes off and cranking it again, then nipped them up again and it wouldn't start again.

 

I 'king hate diesels

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

with the pump slackened you can push it back so much that the boost compensator almost goes under the intercooler.

If you've loosened the pump mounting bolts you could've messed the timing up which would explain why it doesn't start again now.

 

Might be worthwhile setting the pump timing properly & see if that helps.

 

Graham.

[powermandan 0]

Did you change the injcectors at the same time?

 

im pretty sure that lucas and bosch fire at different pressures although not 100%

 

 

 

Ive ran a few diesel pumps dry in the past and ive never had any issues getting them going, the bosch pump can handle a surprising amount of air in the system (had a 3 way valve leak air in for months only symptom was a rough idle).

Edited April 29, 2010 by powermandan

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

If you've loosened the pump mounting bolts you could've messed the timing up which would explain why it doesn't start again now.

 

Might be worthwhile setting the pump timing properly & see if that helps.

 

Graham.

 

Unless the timing belt is loose you won't skip any teeth when you adjust the timing of the pump. The studs are a pretty tight fit in their slot.

 

 

 

Good point about the injectors, the Lucas injectors are a lesser pressure rating than the Bosch ones. Although I thought you wrote that you got some off Graham.

Edited April 29, 2010 by Paul_13

[Rob Turbo 3]

I did change the injectors and lines to bosch ones off Graham.

 

I marked the pump before I moved it and tried everywhere in between with no luck. I thought diesel was supposed to spray out if the injector pipes were cracked off? I know it did on the lucas, now with the pipes cracked off it sort of runs out, with what seems like only a small ammount of pressure!

[weejimmy 1]

are you sure the lines have all been changed to bosh ones?

 

the diesel injector lines set up of the lucas pump as you look at it is

12

34

 

and the bosh is

31

42

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

are you sure the lines have all been changed to bosh ones?

They should be the correct Bosch ones, I sold them to Rob & bought them with the refurbished injectors from Tom Fenton a few years ago but never used them.

 

Good thinking on the pipes but afaik they will only fit in one position for each injector.

 

Graham.

[Rob Turbo 3]

Sorted it!

 

[welshpug 1,657]

bout time

[AndyJ 1]

Cheat!