Installing Phosphor Bronze Rear Beam Bushes

[Capn. Pugwash 0]

I finally got my grubby mitts on a set of nice fat bars for my tarmac rally car, albeit only 5 weeks out from Targa Tasmania (the major event of the year). I pulled the old bars out of my beam which was supposedly rebuilt in 2007 to discover that the trailing arm shafts are totally FUBAR. It looks like the outer bearings were replaced but the inners weren't touched and have turned into a black lumpy mess. I bought a couple of sets of Si's phosphor bronze bushes with a view to putting one in my daily driver (Aus spec series 3) and using the other set in the rally car albeit a few years down the track. The bronze bushes are a work of art (too good for a rally car really!) but I'm a bit worried about keeping the grease up to them. Do I really need to put grease nipples in there to prevent the new bearings from dying at some stage in the future? I'm really reluctant to drill through the bearings- I would cry if I balls'd it up! Presumably I would have to put 4 nipples in, drilling through both the tube and bearing, and line them up with the machined cross channel in the bearing to spread the grease around- correct? Any photos would be appreciated!

 

Apologies if this has been covered before, I searched and couldn't find anything

[woo83 0]

I've got phosphor bronze bushes in mine, I've gone for two nipples, one placed between each set of bushes, so effectively filling that section of the tube with grease to feed the bushes. This works fine as far as i can tell, Although mine have a "spiral" cut in them to help this to happen, Ive also got heaver duty nylon seals to prevent any grease escaping. I wouldn't have thought you'd need either though

 

There has been some talk on this (although i cant find it either ). I've heard you don't really need a great deal of lubrication as one of the properties of phosphor bronze is that it's self lubricating. Whilst this is true I think a bit of grease can only be a good thing. Ive also heard of people putting a small amount of gear oil in the tube to act as a reservoir,

 

To be honest i don't think it really matters which method you use as long as they get some sort of lubrication.

 

Hope this is of some help to you.

 

John

Edited March 21, 2010 by woo83

[Capn. Pugwash 0]

Mine don't have the spiral, they have two parallel grooves running on the inside of the bearing, linked in one place by another groove at 90 degrees. I reckon if that's the case I might just lube the new shafts up nicely and put it back together without nipples and have another look in a year or two and see how they're coping! Thanks for the tip John

 

On another note (and to save starting another thread), I've just removed the outer bearings from the tube. They came away in two sections, the first being the cage and rollers, leaving the outer sleeve in the tube. I got the sleeve out but found that the inside of the tube that it sits on is rusty.... Does this mean the tube is scrap? I'll post some photos in a tic

Edit: It's something like what's being asked here: http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...l=beam&st=0

My beam isn't ovalled out like that though.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Capn. Pugwash

[Capn. Pugwash 0]

Here we go- it's the right hand side of the car, on the top face of the tube:

 

Another shot:

[Capn. Pugwash 0]

A couple more. The last two show the other side of the beam, it looks like the bearing has turned in the shaft....

Is it new tube time?

 

[petert 578]

Have you been storing that tube in salt water? It is way past it. Find a good second hand one.

 

Don't be afraid of drilling into the bush. In fact, I'd be aiming at the centre of each. Drill 5mm, then tap M6 into each hole. Remove swarf of course.

[MerlinGTI 3]

I doesnt look too terminal in there? although its hard to tell with all the corrosion. You need to wang a wire brush drill attachment down there and give it a mega clean up before you decide. I welded an old (ford?) bonnet stay rod to the end of mine to give me enough length

 

The good news is the phosper bronze bushes arnt as reliant on the condition of the beam tube as the needle bearings. I would reccomend getting some 'loctite bearing fit' though.

 

Other thing, I bought the same bush's early on in the group buy and the bastard inner bearings were up a thou or 2, causing the trailing arm shaft not to go past them.

Try the bearings on the shafts before you fit them! Honing bearings out when they live half way down a tube isnt much fun belive me!

 

I fitted grease nipples betwwen the inner and outer bearings like woo83 said

Edited March 21, 2010 by MerlinGTI

[Capn. Pugwash 0]

Thanks for the tips guys! It doesn't look too good on the RHS, the pitting is pretty deep. I'll put some feelers out and see if I can find another tube but I guess I'll have to use it if I can't find a better one in time!

[SurGie 54]

If you do decide to use it you could get the beam professionally re-sleeved.

[welshpug 1,646]

Thanks for the tips guys! It doesn't look too good on the RHS, the pitting is pretty deep. I'll put some feelers out and see if I can find another tube but I guess I'll have to use it if I can't find a better one in time!

 

 

I would find another tube, it'd be the cheapest option unless you're friendly with a capable machinist, left side looks perfect, right side looks well past it.

 

 

 

Have you been storing that tube in salt water? It is way past it. Find a good second hand one.

 

Its called the UK Peter!!

[jimistdt 1]

Its called the UK Peter!!

 

Tasmania!? near Essex is it?

[welshpug 1,646]

[Capn. Pugwash 0]

Tasmania!? near Essex is it?

 

Nah up in the Lake District on the banks of the Derwent

I won't bin the old one but since I'm on a bit of a tight time schedule I'll get a replacement and look into getting this one sleeved sometime down the track

[Capn. Pugwash 0]

Well, I'm making progress, sort of........

 

Peter T has come to the rescue with a perfect tube and some shafts They are all pressed in nicely and look beautiful. Now the dramas begin....

The phosphor bearings slipped nicely over the shafts and rotated freely, with only a tiny bit of play. I carefully pressed in both bearings on one side of the tube to the correct depth, checking all the time with an old shaft and some bearing blue to make sure the inner one was in far enough. All lubed up and ready to go, when I discover that now that I've pushed the bearing in the tube, it's crushed down and I can no longer get the new shaft in!! The old shaft fits perfectly though! There is less than 0.1mm difference between the old and new shafts.

 

What should I do to get out of this world of pain?? I tried getting a honing tool down the tube, but it's really difficult to try and work in there. Any other thoughts?

[MerlinGTI 3]

Stop being a girl and hone them !

It is a pain, but as I mentioned earlier in the thread I managed it it's the only option I could and can think of.

[petert 578]

Knock the bush out, put it in a lathe and remove the required amount. You'll need to be a competent machinist however. One, not to crush the bush and two, to pick up a 0.002" cut.

 

How much did the bushes cost? I tried sourcing some bronze yesterday. They wanted $200 for 100mm of tube.

Edited April 10, 2010 by petert

[Capn. Pugwash 0]

Knock the bush out, put it in a lathe and remove the required amount. You'll need to be a competent machinist however. One, not to crush the bush and two, to pick up a 0.002" cut.

 

How much did the bushes cost? I tried sourcing some bronze yesterday. They wanted $200 for 100mm of tube.

 

I paid Simon 96 pounds a set- I believe he still has some left over

 

If only these things were easy........!!

[ftoomsh 5 1 Cars]

I know we are 5 years down the line here but are these bushes still available?

 

Here's to a positive mental attitude lol.

[mollisk 2 1 Cars]

Instead of phosphor bronze, I have made bushes from "Oilite" material. ( I bought bushes closest to the diameters required and machined to suit ) I found that you have to machine slightly oversize on the I/D to take into account that the O/D is pressed into the beam. Oilite comes impregnated with oil to aid lubrication. When machining use plenty of coolant otherwise the heat generated by machining causes the oil to escape from the material.

I have fitted these bushes to several beams used for rallying.

[ftoomsh 5 1 Cars]

Is this something that you can supply??

[mollisk 2 1 Cars]

You can by the bushes from any bearing supplier, take them to a local machinist and get them to machine to suit.

[ftoomsh 5 1 Cars]

Ok thank you!