Baffled Mi Sump Vs Gti6 Sump And Extended Pickup?

[sideways danny 0]

This same reason is why I could never understand what the other forums have on us.(VW, Ford, vauxhal etc).

20 years later and we still dont have a definate answer to the causes or solution to the following.

1. Oil surge in a 16valve

2. How to make a set hp. For instance u can buy definate kits for ford,vw,vauxhall to get a proven hp.

3. No one produces performance parts in enough quantities to make them cheaply.

 

1 - I dont REALLY believe it's surge

2 - most really dont make the claims, clever marketing that people want to believe, people on here seen to be more grounded in their targets, and have a realistic view of REAL performance

3 - Not enough money in it for such old vehicles, especially as on the whole 205s are very DIY

[ifcho 0]

Which do you think is the better option? Modify the 1.9 8v rods to fit the mi16 pistons, or modify the pistons to fit the rods?

Also would it be possible to bore the rods, so they can work with floating pin?

[Jrod 7]

I took and angle grinder to it in the end just to make it fit. Not sure why I had to but I did.

 

I also had to remove some material off one of the ribs as otherwise the oil pump wouldnt fit.

 

I'm not sure why you've still got the oil level sender fitted. Snip it short and just make it a bung instead.

 

 

Do you literally just cut it off? Is there anything else you need to do?

Edited May 25, 2010 by Jrod

[roote 0]

danny you have just said what ive been thinking !

 

is it surge ? well ive been pondering on a couple of thought's about this subject as im about to bring up my thought's,

firstly most people whack in a 6 bar oil spring, gti6 sump and a baffle of some sort.

 

Now after inspecting the engine design have come to the conclusion that the main diference on the mi16 is the consumption of oil, the 8v dose have oil problems but no where near as bad, so the fact that the mi head has to supply hydrolic tappets, an extra cam and piston spray bars so consuming all the oil. so by fitting a 6 bar oil pump we are just kidding our selfs and using to much when we dont need it.

 

so im going to keep the old spring and place baffles in the sump spacer, now i hope im not going to be eating my words but i will tell all my findings.

[SweetBadger 94]

Do you literally just cut it off? Is there anything else you need to do?

 

Yes that's it, or if you've got a spare sump plug hanging around you can replace the sensor with that...

[sideways danny 0]

danny you have just said what ive been thinking !

 

is it surge ? well ive been pondering on a couple of thought's about this subject as im about to bring up my thought's,

firstly most people whack in a 6 bar oil spring, gti6 sump and a baffle of some sort.

 

Now after inspecting the engine design have come to the conclusion that the main diference on the mi16 is the consumption of oil, the 8v dose have oil problems but no where near as bad, so the fact that the mi head has to supply hydrolic tappets, an extra cam and piston spray bars so consuming all the oil. so by fitting a 6 bar oil pump we are just kidding our selfs and using to much when we dont need it.

 

so im going to keep the old spring and place baffles in the sump spacer, now i hope im not going to be eating my words but i will tell all my findings.

 

I think getting oil to drain back away from the head into the sump is the key. Similar had been tried and tested on other engines that "apparently" suffer from surge or "weak" bottom ends. I need to work out what the soultion is, but i'm fairly convinced this is the issue

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

Either way, the sump spacer / extended pickup combination increases oil capacity to 6.5 liters so that should compensate easily for the extra oil held in the head.

 

Does anyone know the answer to Ifchos' question? When using 8v rods, do you use 8v or 16 pins? I'm really interested in this as well.

[luggy 13]

Does anyone know the answer to Ifchos' question? When using 8v rods, do you use 8v or 16 pins? I'm really interested in this as well.

 

The 16v pins are lighter and are the same diameter as the 8v ones

[ifcho 0]

I think getting oil to drain back away from the head into the sump is the key. Similar had been tried and tested on other engines that "apparently" suffer from surge or "weak" bottom ends. I need to work out what the soultion is, but i'm fairly convinced this is the issue

 

Wouldn't the simple solution for this problem be to just overfill the engine with the amount of oil the head holds, even without the spacer, you can overfill the engine? I was looking the head yesterday, and drilling it to make some reasonably large oil drain holes, didn't seem as a good idea. Too little space around the back of the head, and too near to the exhaust ports and the lifter supply pipe is too risky according to me.

 

As for the pins, the 8v rods are press fit, while the 16 rods are fully floating. I'll see later this week if the 8v rods can be modified to fully floating design.

Edited May 25, 2010 by ifcho

[Jrod 7]

Last 2 Q's about the windage tray.

 

Anyone know the torque for the m5x12 bolts that hold it to the ribs? Also should you use threadlock on them?

[sideways danny 0]

Wouldn't the simple solution for this problem be to just overfill the engine with the amount of oil the head holds, even without the spacer, you can overfill the engine? I was looking the head yesterday, and drilling it to make some reasonably large oil drain holes, didn't seem as a good idea. Too little space around the back of the head, and too near to the exhaust ports and the lifter supply pipe is too risky according to me.

 

As for the pins, the 8v rods are press fit, while the 16 rods are fully floating. I'll see later this week if the 8v rods can be modified to fully floating design.

 

 

Not quite what i mean. I believe that oil is pumped up to the top of the enigne, faster than it drains down, when under extended high RPM conditions. If you just over-fill, you're masking the problem slightly, I'd rather enlarge a couple of drain holes (not by very much!!!)

[Baz 421]

Excessively over-filling the oil isn't actually going to do you any favours either!

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

Overfilling will cause the crank to froth the oil and aerated oil will go into the system. As everyone knows air is not a lubricant and will not do the engine any good.

 

I am in the process of rebuilding my mi16 with 8v rods and crank and will be using the xu10 sprocket, chain, spring, windage tray, spacer and tin sump, extended pickup and will be adding some baffles to the sump. I'm hoping this will be enough.

[roote 0]

the question about using the 8v rod's, check if the 16v rods have an oil way up the centre to the pin's, if they dont then they should be able to be cylindricly ground for clearance, as they coldn't be reamed due to them being hardened, i would imagen it being expensive though.

 

also the m5 bolts, 10 nm / 7 lb ft and yes use thread lock as you dont want them coming loose.