Big Kangarooing Problems

[Vz_ace 0]

Hello everbody.

 

After replacement of the blown head gasket, the car has got big kangarooing problems. Last days I also noticed lack of power, when accelerating. the engine is running like one cylinder has low compression, but i checked all cylinders with a pressure meter and compr. is ok. all hoses look ok. i must tell, that after head-gasket replacing, the engine idles much higher than before (before-around 1200rpm). i tried to sort that out with a brass screw on the TB. i winded it forward (to the end), and the engine still didnt stall. is that ok? what is that srew for?

 

The main problems are (after new headgasket installed):

 

-higer idling speed

-kangarooing (before i didnt noticed it)

-feeling only- worse economy (i didnt measure it)

 

The car is 205 gti 1.6 xu5j4.

 

what could be wrong?

 

i hope you will understand me.

 

thanks,

Vlado, Slovenia

[DamirGTI 342]

Did you put the dizzy back on the same position as it was before removing the head ? if not could be ignition timing issue - mark current position and advance it/move it a little bit (slacken both 11nuts and turn it clockwise when looking @ the dizzy from the LH side of the car .. turn it roughly 2/3mm's from marked line) , and see if it goes any better ... if it starts to detonate while driving under load in higher gear then back off the timing i.e. turn the dizzy the opposite direction - other way around (retard the timing)

 

Other than that , check if all the inlet/breather hoses are properly routed and clamps securely tightened .. as you might have an air/vacuum leak somewhere .. (for air/vacuum leak test - remove the top air inlet hose from the AFM , start the engine and fully block the AFM inlet with your hand or an piece/block of cardboard/plastic/sheet metal etc. -> if it's fine the engine will stall just after a few seconds while you block the AFM ..)

 

The big brass screw on the TB is for idle speed correction , but so is the little throttle stop screw at the back of the TB above the throttle leaver , adjustment of this one affects the idle speed as well ..

 

Check the timing belt as well , if it's not precisely refitted i.e. if the cam/crank pulleys aren't locked properly before refitting the belt it'll also have effect on engine performance (as the cam will be slightly retarded or advanced ..) , just as the ignition timing ..

 

Damir

Edited March 10, 2010 by DamirGTI

[Vz_ace 0]

Did you put the dizzy back on the same position as it was before removing the head ? if not could be ignition timing issue - mark current position and advance it/move it a little bit (slacken both 11nuts and turn it clockwise when looking @ the dizzy from the LH side of the car .. turn it roughly 2/3mm's from marked line) , and see if it goes any better ... if it starts to detonate while driving under load in higher gear then back off the timing i.e. turn the dizzy the opposite direction - other way around (retard the timing)

 

Other than that , check if all the inlet/breather hoses are properly routed and clamps securely tightened .. as you might have an air/vacuum leak somewhere .. (for air/vacuum leak test - remove the top air inlet hose from the AFM , start the engine and fully block the AFM inlet with your hand or an piece/block of cardboard/plastic/sheet metal etc. -> if it's fine the engine will stall just after a few seconds while you block the AFM ..)

 

The big brass screw on the TB is for idle speed correction , but so is the little throttle stop screw at the back of the TB above the throttle leaver , adjustment of this one affects the idle speed as well ..

 

Check the timing belt as well , if it's not precisely refitted i.e. if the cam/crank pulleys aren't locked properly before refitting the belt it'll also have effect on engine performance (as the cam will be slightly retarded or advanced ..) , just as the ignition timing ..

 

Damir

 

 

I i've tried turning the distributor, but there was no any significant changes. i suspect the timing belt-over leap, because of kangarooing. is it possible, isnt't it?

 

What about sad sensor? i've heard,that it affects idling (cold-warm). does it also affects higher speeds or could it be the reason of lack of power at higher speeds (bad torque, bad reving)??i'll try with a new set of ign.leads and a dizzy.

 

how can i rid of kangarooing?

 

i forgot-emmisions are very eyes irritating.

[DamirGTI 342]

Yes the SAD does control the idle speed , and can make problems (high idle) afterwards as well when the engine heats up to the operating temp if it does not close after the warm up period - the problem here might be disconnected SAD heater connector (the black 2pin connector) this connector supplys 12v to the SAD heater element which is needed to fully close the bimetallic disc inside the SAD and thus stops pumping air inside the inlet tract ..

Check if you haven't by any chance mixed up this the black SAD connector with ECU temp. sensor connector -> they're both 2pin connectors -> the SAD one is black _> the ECU temp. sensor is blue ..

 

Also , when the engine is fully warmed up to the operation temp. , with the engine running squeeze with your fingers SAD pipe which goes on the main/big air inlet pipe (the one which connects TB with the AFM) -> if it's fine there shouldn't be any difference on the idle speed what so ever i.e. it will not droop down when you squeeze the pipe , if on the other hand revs droop down when squeezing this pipe then the SAD still works after warm up period which it shouldn't so check the black connector as described above ..

 

Damir

Edited March 10, 2010 by DamirGTI

[martin81 1]

I have the same problems.. First check All breatherhoses, and then check them again..

 

Im replacing the TPS, SAD and the lambda probe..

When I tried to clean the TPS it went absolutely mad!!! Then the next morning it was "normal" again...

My idle is really crap.. Worse than before, so Im replacing that also

[Vz_ace 0]

Yes the SAD does control the idle speed , and can make problems (high idle) afterwards as well when the engine heats up to the operating temp if it does not close after the warm up period - the problem here might be disconnected SAD heater connector (the black 2pin connector) this connector supplys 12v to the SAD heater element which is needed to fully close the bimetallic disc inside the SAD and thus stops pumping air inside the inlet tract ..

Check if you haven't by any chance mixed up this the black SAD connector with ECU temp. sensor connector -> they're both 2pin connectors -> the SAD one is black _> the ECU temp. sensor is blue ..

 

Also , when the engine is fully warmed up to the operation temp. , with the engine running squeeze with your fingers SAD pipe which goes on the main/big air inlet pipe (the one which connects TB with the AFM) -> if it's fine there shouldn't be any difference on the idle speed what so ever i.e. it will not droop down when you squeeze the pipe , if on the other hand revs droop down when squeezing this pipe then the SAD still works after warm up period which it shouldn't so check the black connector as described above ..

 

Damir

 

 

good tips,Damir. thanks for yoour help. these connectors might be mixed,as i always have troubles with putting them in to right places;).

i saw , that you use FSE boost valve. is it worth to buy?

 

i'm a little ill now. whent this passes away and the energy rises, i'll go to the garage to fight with the dodgy car;).

[martin81 1]

does the SAD need to be fixed to its original place, or can it hang loose in the engine compartment??

I ask, because Ive read that it also uses the heat generated from the enginge to shut it..

[davey205 7 1 Cars]

It should be bolted on i only have 1 nut holding mine on because i cant physically get the other on so fiddly !! But it makes a difference i believe

[martin81 1]

Anyone who can confirm that it needs to be bolted back on??

[DamirGTI 342]

Yes , it's heated via ECU temp. sensor coolant block as well as heater element on the SAD body .. so it needs both sources of heat for fully closing the bimetallic disc ..

 

Damir

[DamirGTI 342]

i saw , that you use FSE boost valve. is it worth to buy?

 

Nope , no use for std. engine mine is with ported head , i had problems with lean fuel mixture so i need to up the pressure a bit to bring the air/fuel ratio back before it goes - bang !

 

Damir

[martin81 1]

Ok, Ill bolt it back on when I get the new one... Speaking of which, the little 7mm bolt, how should it be placed.. I can see that it changes the size of the hole..

Maybe I should just leave it where it is, when I receive it...

[martin81 1]

Ive had succes with changing the lambda probe/ oxygen sensor.. Dont know if yours got one.. My cars pulls revs like normal again...

So its worth considering..

[Wes 86 1 Cars]

mine is doing the same as described here, did the head gasket and now its as if its missing when off the power but is fine when on the power. trying to drive it in traffic is a nightmare as i have to keep dipping/slipping the clutch to stop it kangarooing. can some one do a list in simple terms of what to check or change?

[davey205 7 1 Cars]

i just did the lazy thing and disconnected the tps and upped the idle a bit

[Wes 86 1 Cars]

ok i have disconnected the tps and got it idleing a lot better, it is smoother on the road but it still tries to kangaroo at low speeds. is there a way to test the cts and sad? i have a decent multi meter.

[welshpug 1,657]

not without a multimeter no.

 

unless you substitute them for new known working components.

Edited March 14, 2010 by welshpug

[davey205 7 1 Cars]

ok i have disconnected the tps and got it idleing a lot better, it is smoother on the road but it still tries to kangaroo at low speeds. is there a way to test the cts and sad? i have a decent multi meter.

make sure all the pipes are connected firmly and all clips are in place, mine is still a bit jerky at low speeds.

[DanielKamar 0]

Mine is just like yours! At low speed it goes up and down like crazy, on medium revs and high revs it goes awesome and I have a new Tps, a new Sad, a nice working Afm.. Sometimes it idles bad going up and down between 600/1500 rpm's and and sometimes it idles well.. Drives me crazy dough..

[Vz_ace 0]

Yesterday i started to cope with my problem (kangarooing and how could i say-lazy, misfiring-like bad compression engine). I decided to check the rotor and distributor cap in the first place. That was not it. Now i'm waiting for a new set of HT leads to try. Then go for timing belt inspection ;you know-i replaced it app. 1 month ago, when I did the headgasket stuff. When i removed covers i discovered, that it was very loose. I Wanted to check the correct position of pulleys with pins, but when i allign the camshaft pulley and put pin throuhg and locked it, the cranckshaft pulley pin hole and hole on the block were not even. the difference was about half a circle or pin (i hope, you will undarstand). Now i have few questions:

 

-I think, that is to small difference between locating holes for overleaped timing belt for one tooth, isnt't it? locating hole position on the block (for the cranckshaft pulley) is app. on 9 o'clock,isnt it?

 

-is it possible, that the timing has been elongated? (Contitech)

-what shoult the tension of the timing belt be?

 

I also discovered, the hose, that comes from SAD valve to intake collector (from downside-up), is combined from 3 parts, which were not joined together very tightly (posibility for a leaking air). this could be the reason for kangarooing?

 

 

During the inspection mentioned above i also discovered a broken wire in the wiring, that comes to the distributor housing (2 wires go into connector; one wire, i think that's the ground is in the coat). That 3rd wire in the coat was broken. i think-it should com to the distributor housing.

 

-Is it possible, that 3-rd wire was missing all the time? is iz possible, that the car run without that?

 

thanks for the answers,

Vladimir

[Vz_ace 0]

I forgot to add,that after a head gasket job, the consumption of the engine oil increased, although i was smelling it form time to time. When i removed the thb, I saw quite big amount of oil on the bottom of the intake manifold. Before the headgasket job, there were not any problems with that.

 

It should not be the problem in piston rings and liners wear, because i done the compression test and all cylinders are ok and even.

 

is it possible to be the problem in hosing? i changed that hose, which comes from afm to thb hose and goes to filler cap. has that hose originally reduced diamerer in the middle (small hole)? because i replaced it with some standard one, not original.

 

thanks for help

[Vz_ace 0]

Damn. When I removed the camshaft cover, there was a big negative surprise waiting for me .

 

 

 

and this:

 

 

 

 

That happened few hundreds miles after headgasket job. I did't notice any damage during the head assembly and disassembly then. When i was driving i also didn't notice any oil pressure dropings (control panel gauge). maybe there was a little less oil pressure lastly, compared to before.

 

Why thappened this? Is this common problem? tha engine has 250k on the clock. I used total 5-40 oil. Any ideas,please.

 

thanks,

Vlado

[Vz_ace 0]

Damn. When I removed the camshaft cover, there was a big negative surprise waiting for me .

 

 

 

and this:

 

 

 

 

That happened few hundreds miles after headgasket job. I did't notice any damage during the head assembly and disassembly then. When i was driving i also didn't notice any oil pressure dropings (control panel gauge). maybe there was a little less oil pressure lastly, compared to before.

 

Why thappened this? Is this common problem? tha engine has 250k on the clock. I used total 5-40 oil. Any ideas,please.

 

thanks,

Vlado

 

no ideas? no one? I suspect an engine oil.