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Peetypug

Starting My 1.6/1.9 Engine Build

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Peetypug

due to having a mass of spare engine parts, i've decided to take a bit of time to make a myself a fresh engine that i will eventually put in my laser green

 

i was going to keep it standard, but dont think it would do it any harm having a 1.9 engine dropped in with a few tweeks here and there :P

 

so, at my disposal i have

2 x 1.9 engines (both from 1990 cars)

1 x 1.6 engine that i think was from a 1990 aswell (cheers tom)

and my 1.6 engine thats in my car now, apparently :mellow: its got a piper 285 cam in it, but to keep my car on the road this wont be touched until i need the cam

 

anyway, after my initial thread regarding this sort of build it turns out that it used to be quite a common thing to do in motorsport

 

so, i will be stripping the 3 engines and doing some measuring to find which parts are the closest to the standard engine sizes (eg, head, block, weighing pistons etc etc) then using the best bits to build a slightly improved engine

 

it will basically be a 1.9 with 1.6 pistons to raise the compression

 

head will be ported, polished and have triple valve seats cut into it running the 285 cam (i may change this to a kent pt27 cam before the end of the build)

then probably use a set of carbs as i've been told the standard injection wont be good enough and mapable ingnition

i will be getting a second set of 1.6 pistons and using the 4 that are the closest in weight

the pistons will be fitted to the 1.9 rods (not by me :D )

the rest of the parts will be checked over by the same company that will be sorting the pistons

i will also be fitting an alloy trapdoor sump from an s16 engine

 

gearing wise i will be using a 1.6 flywheel as its lighter and a standard 1.6 box

 

anybody with experience of this setup and any problems i may come across are more than welcome to pitch in with ideas

 

i'm in no massive rush to build it, i've got to strip the engines first

Edited by sorrentopete

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Mad Scientist

Just make sure you don't run out of cider if you need to keep borrowing my tools!

 

:)

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MerlinGTI

Pretty much what im building :)

 

DamirGTI has run the 1.6 piston 1.9 engine setup sucesfully on std injection with only a recurve of the dizzy springs and a general tune up. This is what I will be doing also (for now).

 

While your weight matching pistons, balancings the rods looks like good old fashion DIY fun, google for a 'how too'. I shall be doing this myself. Harmonic crank balance is also on my list. You going to run a vernier pully?

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unariciflocos

You can't run the PT27 with standard management.

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Guest yml28

Sounds good, i'm looking to do the same thing as well, just bought a 1.6 engine, already have a 1.6 in my car, just looking for a 1.9 engine now.

 

Anyone know if there is any differences between the 1.9 blocks through the years? am i better off getting the 1.9 that would of been in my car? (1987) or does it not make a difference?

 

Also, may of been my imagination but i think i read somewhere that bigger valves are also a must for this type of build? or is this one of those questions where some say yes and some disagree?

 

thanks

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MerlinGTI

Bigger valves are not a must, more of a prefrable choice I would have thought. Ive gone BVH myself.

 

I think all 1.9 blocks are the same (maybe some minor casting differences?) Things that do matter though when choosing are the crank and pistons. Some 1.9's were low compression jobbies, I think the code you will want is D6B. The DKZ etc.. are low comp and no good for the N/A route.

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Guest yml28

Ah yeah i remember reading that now about the 1.9 engines

 

So you use a 1.9 block, with 1.6 pistons but 1.9 conrods, 1.9 crank? and the 1.6 flyweel?

Then the head can either be the 1.6 or 1.9 as they where pretty much the same, and if your going to port it and make it a BVH with a 285 cam its not going to make much odds?

 

Read somewhere you can use the mi16 dizzy to cope with the advance? or is there somewhere/someone who can make the dizzy to suit?

 

Thanks

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MerlinGTI
  yml28 said:
Ah yeah i remember reading that now about the 1.9 engines

 

So you use a 1.9 block, (or a 1.6 block they are the same as far as I know) with 1.6 pistons but 1.9 conrods, Yup 1.9 crank? and the 1.6 flyweel? Yup

Then the head can either be the 1.6 or 1.9 as they where pretty much the same, Thay are the same as far as I know, early 1.6 had smaller vales and different cam though. Pre '87 IIRC and pretty uncommon and if your going to port it and make it a BVH with a 285 cam its not going to make much odds? Im running a 285 piper at the mo on my 1.6, everything is else is standard

 

Read somewhere you can use the mi16 dizzy to cope with the advance? or is there somewhere/someone who can make the dizzy to suit? H&H ignition solutions can rebuild and re curve your dizzy, Mi's had coil packs as standard as far as I know, they only ran dizzys when cheaply converted into 205's I think)

 

Thanks

 

 

The only thing I will add is I got the impression from Damir that all this is asking a lot from the standard management/injection (Ign Amps for example seem to be fussy with the advance) and that aftermarket management is obviously needed to get the best out of it all.

 

Also please remember to those reading this, these are my plans and the route I will be going down. I cant vouch for any of this working reliably yet as I havent finished building it all yet :D

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DamirGTI

Can't speak just from perspective of raising the CR :D cos i've done head as well as some other bits and bobs .. been driving this engine for 2/3 years now on a daily basis (everywhere , long and short trips ..) and it's been bullet proof so far no problems what so ever really can't complain -_- ..

 

The "problems" started after building this engine - lean fuel mixture and unsuitable ignition advance curve .. i.e. engine tune up .. it took me one full month to sort this out properly .. so the key for this the high CR engine is ignition timing (recurved dizzy is a must !, or better still , fully mappable ignition) and if the head is modified it'll need more fuel as well (FSE helps ..) ..

 

Damir -_-

 

EDIT : that's the "poor mans approach" :lol: for you UK people id strongly reccomend complete SA management and mapping on a rolling road to make the best out of this (would fancy this myself but we don't have nor a single trusted mapping workshop over here .. so it "can't" be done .. tried messing about with the megasquirt but the whole idea is far too boring for me to learn "how to" :ph34r: will try again when i became little bit older !)

Edited by DamirGTI

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MerlinGTI
  DamirGTI said:
been driving this engine for 2/3 years now on a daily basis (everywhere , long and short trips ..) and it's been bullet proof so far no problems what so ever really can't complain :D ..

 

Damir :ph34r:

 

 

:lol:-_--_-

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boombang

I've had my 1.9 engine up for sale for a little while now, but would consider splitting the head off and selling bottom end seperately.

 

The head is an Autosprint "stage 2", only been run a few times since they last refreshed it, but basically ported and flowed, 3 angle valve seats.

 

It's a known good head, and has the work you want done already - might work out a better/cheaper option than having another checked over then paying out for the work on it.

 

Drop me a PM if you want some pics or interested in it.

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sub205
  sorrentopete said:
then probably use a set of carbs as i've been told the standard injection wont be good enough and mapable ingnition

 

thats wrong!

 

i'm running the standard inlet with a little bigger throttle and a programmable efi, good for 157bhp and 188nm (from a 2.0 8v, but the 1.9er should be good for at least 152bhp with similar setup).

 

carbs raise fuel consumption and dont give much higher power. sure they are nice, but i dont see the reason for changing it?

 

maybe the best aproach to get 150+ bhp from a 1.9/2.0 is using the 2.0 xsi throttle body and loom/ecu, this gave my engine 155bhp and a really nice drivability, better than my current megasquirt-setup which is a bit rough but goes well.

 

the stock exhaust manifold is really good for the 8v. put a metal catalyzer behind it and a decent exhaust and your fine!

 

most important is the cam, compression ratio and good head work! and, of course, get rid of that stupid mass airflow meter! it raises consumtion and steals power from the engine.

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sub205
  DamirGTI said:
.. anyone speaks German ?! ;)

 

http://www.french-classics.de/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=75

 

(saw some rather "kinky ideas" on the pics :lol: but i can't read this language as good as English ..)

 

Damir B)

 

i know this guy. he made a custom manifold (which is a 2 in 1 in 4 type, very strange) and put some big throttles on it.

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MerlinGTI

brdbdeuv.jpg

 

Oh my i NEED these wheels! ;)

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Guest yml28

Thanks for all the help, just a bit confused about the block still, i thought you put the 1.6 pistons in a 1.9 block to raise the compression, so by using a 1.6 block surely it would be the same CR? or is it the switching of the con rods that causes this? (this may sound a bit dumb but bare with me)

 

And instead of carbs a mappable injection such as throttle bodies, or a larger throttle body from an xsi with a programable EFI may be a more usable fuelling method, assuming this is on the standard inlet manifold?

 

thanks again for all the help

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boombang
  yml28 said:
Thanks for all the help, just a bit confused about the block still, i thought you put the 1.6 pistons in a 1.9 block to raise the compression, so by using a 1.6 block surely it would be the same CR? or is it the switching of the con rods that causes this? (this may sound a bit dumb but bare with me)

 

Blocks are the same, as are liners - just crank, rods and pistons differ.

 

Common way of raising compression is 1.9 crank, 1.9 rods and 1.6 pistons.

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Peetypug

boombang, your right about the head work, it will be cheaper to get a ready done one, shame i missed out on yours :lol:

 

anyway, i've located a garage near me that can dosome of the finer work for me

 

so my first thing is stripping the engines

 

i started last night and stripped the 1.6 head and inlet, just need to sort out some bolts to get the block onto the stand, then that shall be stripped between now and next week

 

anybody know how to check how much has been skimmed off a head?

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welshpug

measure the height of it from the head face to the parallel surface at the top :lol:

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welshpug

only if peugeot did it :lol:

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Peetypug
  welshpug said:
only if peugeot did it :lol:

 

 

 

bummer :lol:

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DamirGTI

Yes , the R/R2 that'll be some kind of factory value skim markings :lol: but you'll need to measure it top to the bottom as described in order to check if it was skimmed afterwards by mechanics due to overheating/replacing the head gasket etc. usual skim value for resurfacing is 0.20mm , but can be skimmed more that that if someone did the skim job in order to raise the CR or if the head was severely warped by overheating ..

 

Damir :lol:

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Peetypug

Well tonight I've picked up an early birthday present to myself

Its got triple valve seats, fantastic inlet and exhaust port work and a pt27 cam!

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