Is The Cam Timing 180 Degrees Out ?

[chicargo 0]

hi all. ive been having this problem.... http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=115724... with my 88 1.9 205 gti. ive now checked the cam belt timing and with the dowels inserted at the 12oclock and 7oclock position on the crank and cam pulley, the rotor arm is pointing to cylinder number 4 (the one closest to the cam side of the engine) from what i can make out from the haynes manual and this forum the rotor arm is supposed to be pointing to cylinder number 1. could it be this affecting the performance ???. and could it be that its got a wrong rotor arm or dizzy fitted to make it be pointing to number 4 instead of 1. cheers in advance. simon

[welshpug 1,657]

possibly have the dizzy on upside down

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I could be wrong but don't the dowels lock the crank in a neutral, all pistons level position for safety of (dis)assembly? Not really anything to do with timing as such.

Edited March 2, 2010 by DrSarty

[chicargo 0]

I could be wrong but don't the dowels lock the crank in a neutral, all pistons level position for safety of (dis)assembly? Not really anything to do with timing as such.

cheers welshpug an drsarty,

im quite sure the dowels are suppose to be for setting timing at tdc??, but seriously im far from an expert so good possibility im wrong. "possibly have the dizzy on upside down". im begining to think its gotta be something to do with the dizzy because if the cam or crank timing was out by 180 degrees the dowels wouldnt line up surley, and the crank and cam pulleys are located on the end of the camshaft and crankshaft with woodruff keys so cant be out really thinking about it.

im thinking maybe wrong rotor arm or dizzy

ive just had a quick look on the dizzy and theres two lots of numbers... 0237 009 066 and c 043 d 019,

Edited March 2, 2010 by chicargo

[chicargo 0]

cheers welshpug an drsarty,

im quite sure the dowels are suppose to be for setting timing at tdc??, but seriously im far from an expert so good possibility im wrong. "possibly have the dizzy on upside down". im begining to think its gotta be something to do with the dizzy because if the cam or crank timing was out by 180 degrees the dowels wouldnt line up surley, and the crank and cam pulleys are located on the end of the camshaft and crankshaft with woodruff keys so cant be out really thinking about it.

im thinking maybe wrong rotor arm or dizzy

ive just had a quick look on the dizzy and theres two lots of numbers... 0237 009 066 and c 043 d 019,

 

just checked this post http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=101973 and seems as though its the right dizzy.

[welshpug 1,657]

066, bosch part number for a 1.9

[chicargo 0]

066, bosch part number for a 1.9

cheers

[chicargo 0]

just been thinking about it and i might have figured out why the rotor arm is pointing to the lead that goes to cylinder number 4 instead of 1....i think at some point somebodys put the leeds in the dizzy wrong ???. i'll check it tomorrow,

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Don;t forget that number 1 is at the flywheel

[Guest BigErn]

According to Autodata...

 

The cylinder number 1 is the closest to the distributor. Number 1 on the distributor is in the "2 o'clock" position. I would copy and paste the picture but for some reason it wont bloody work. The rotor arm rotates anti-clockwise too.

[chicargo 0]

According to Autodata...

 

The cylinder number 1 is the closest to the distributor. Number 1 on the distributor is in the "2 o'clock" position. I would copy and paste the picture but for some reason it wont bloody work. The rotor arm rotates anti-clockwise too.

Miles Posted Today, 12:55 AM

 

Don;t forget that number 1 is at the flywheel

chicargo Posted Yesterday, 07:24 PM

 

cheers guys, i thought it was pointint to the cylinder closest to the cam pulley, but had another look at it today and turns out that drsarty could have been right when he said....... "I could be wrong but don't the dowels lock the crank in a neutral, all pistons level position for safety of (dis)assembly? Not really anything to do with timing as such."......... because when i checked the timing today by lining up the marks on the flywheel and the timing plate (the right marks this time) the rotor is in fact pointing to cylinder number 1 (clutch end). ive tried tweeking the timing again but still no proper power .

when i turn the dizzy towards the bulkhead it pinks its b*lls off but the idle speed is improved and when driven the power is also a lot better, if i turn the dizzy towards the radiator just untill the pinking stops it loses all its power again.

this car is truely starting to give me an headace

[welshpug 1,657]

distributor is at the flywheel end

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Ahhh, pitcrew: you gotta love 'em.

Edited March 4, 2010 by DrSarty

[davev 1]

can you not get access to a strobe light? as then you will be able to see where you are on the ignition timing. ie. is it pinking very early, or at a place where it would pink on all our cars.

 

if thats right then it might be worth looking at other things that could cause lack of power.

[chicargo 0]

can you not get access to a strobe light? as then you will be able to see where you are on the ignition timing. ie. is it pinking very early, or at a place where it would pink on all our cars.

 

if thats right then it might be worth looking at other things that could cause lack of power.

 

hi there, yes, ive got a timing light, but its one of the older type ones where you plug the connector from the timing light onto the top of the spark plug and then plug the ht lead onto the top of the connector from the timing light , the problem is that ive lost the conector for the timing light that fits between the plug and ht lead and had to try stuffing the bare wire from the timing light inbetween the spark plug and lead, and as you can imagine the engine was missing like a good un which made it impossible to establish if the timing was right.

typical of me that though, just when i need the timing light i cant find the stupid conector for it

[ade 4wd 11]

Just had a thought on this, does it have a standard camshaft?

My last 205 had a performance camshaft fitted and the timing belt was two teeth out on the camshaft sprocket. I did not know this when i changed the cambelt and timed it up using the two dowl holes and it was very down on power. It was trial and error moving the camshaft sprocket a tooth at a time in both dirrections before i got it right.

 

Ade,

[sub205 5]

if your ignition timing is 180° apart, you will not get any power output at all.

when cylinder 1 is waiting for spark, cylinder 4 is empty.

the newer wasted-spark-type-engines fire 1+4 and 2+3 simultaneous, so one of both gets a spark without having anything to burn...

[martyn180 9]

Surely the distributer locks into the camshaftly one way due to the lugs offset, so unless you have got all the ht in the wrong position, then it cant be 180 degress out\? as the lugs are.

I would look at the timing belt.

[welshpug 1,657]

the body of the distributor can be upside down, the shaft through the middle as you say has an offset key though.

[sub205 5]

Surely the distributer locks into the camshaftly one way due to the lugs offset, so unless you have got all the ht in the wrong position, then it cant be 180 degress out\? as the lugs are.

I would look at the timing belt.

the belt cant be adjusted for 180 cam degrees more/less because every 2 rotations of crankshaft your cam does 1 rotation, that means 1 crankshaft rotation = 180° camshaft ;-)

[kilauea 7]

I struggled for days with mine only to find the dizzy had collapsed inside offering no advance no matter what I did.

Just worth noting, it shouldn't be that hard and if it is, there is prolly something else wrong.

[sub205 5]

hm he's got a 88 1.9 ... 102bhp ?

 

i did not think about that, but anyway, despite of the vac advance system the distributor is practically the same.

180° out of alignment is not possible. only when you mount the distributor the wrong way, but not via the timing belt.