What Else Do I Need

[JRL 14 1 Cars]

Hi to you all. this is my 1st proper post I have read some threads on bike carbs and TB's I realise not everyone likes them but I already have them now and would like to give it a shot. This is what I have already please if you can tell me what else I need.

 

45mm Honda blackbird cbr 1100 throttle bodies, bike injectors, bike TPS, bike manifold.

bogg brothers manifold to mi16

silicone couplings

custom inlet (Ram pipes fitted directly to chokes with alu backplates)

will be buying an aftermarket ecu. MS is more what I would like to pay. will I need a Loom?

ITG socks (cheap option)

Fse boost valve ( although I doubt this can be used???)

A fairly knowledgable friend to fit them

Plans to have them properly set up at power engineering in middlesex

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I have read some threads on bike carbs and TB's I realise not everyone likes them.

Nothing wrong with bike carbs/ITBs, although ITBs will always provide better flexibility and results due to full mapping although this costs more.

 

It's not that the bike ITBs are bad/naff; in fact it's been argued that their build quality is much better than common makes like Jenvey. In fact they all do the same thing. The issue is more to do with people doing half-arsed, cheap skate (sorry) installations.

 

In short, they are a cheaper option (less than Jenveys), but don't stay cheap and join them up with...

silicone couplings

This ^^^ is where the problems can occur.

 

45mm Honda blackbird cbr 1100 throttle bodies, bike injectors, bike TPS, bike manifold.

Nothing wrong with these. Nice and big; well made and well spaced. But you may need to look at the throttle linkage to avoid them being too sensitive.

 

bogg brothers manifold to mi16

Hmmm. Good quality but let down by the need for the 'sillycon' joiners.

 

custom inlet (Ram pipes fitted directly to chokes with alu backplates)

Fine

 

will be buying an aftermarket ecu. MS is more what I would like to pay. will I need a Loom?

Of course you'll need a loom. How else will the management work?

 

But MS is not a good route really. Can work, and if your mapper knows it well you can get good results. But more often than not it seems EVERYONE who tries it, has problems and resorts to new or even second hand Omex, Emerald, DTA etc.

 

ITG socks (cheap option)

Noooooo! Commonly accepted on here that socks are bad. Spend properly on perhaps a Pipercross or ITG backplate with or sausage or flat filter.

 

Fse boost valve ( although I doubt this can be used???)

Don't need it. 3 bar on a standard GTI pump is fine.

 

Plans to have them properly set up at power engineering in middlesex

I hope they know MS then. But have you asked them what they really like working with? That's what you should use.

 

All of the above is a personal reply. But if you've read the threads I think you've read, then you really should have expected these answers.

 

All of the above is from my experience coupled with a bit of forum concensus, e.g. socks being bad.

 

In summary: cheap is a bad route for anything. Buy cheap - buy twice. Accept that some things need to be done right, and that has a cost.

Edited February 28, 2010 by DrSarty

[steve@cornwall 100]

In summary: cheap is a bad route for anything. Buy cheap - buy twice. Accept that some things need to be done right, and that has a cost.

 

 

Heretic

[JRL 14 1 Cars]

Nice thorough answer appreciate it.

 

my local mappers said any ecu they can do and dont have a preference

I will get a loom instead of make one up with mish mash of wires

A friend had socks and then went to a sausage filter and it made no difference what so ever.

Bogg bothers manifold wasnt as great quality as I expected I had to remove some casting steps with a dremel may be it was done by an apprentice .

 

why is coupling from bodies to manifold bad? how else can they be put on?

 

I am a fuss pot when it comes to my cars and I always strive to get the best and i like to try something A bit different.

[omega 82]

socks are known to suck in restricting airflow and worse case bye bye engine

your mate might have just been lucky

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

why is coupling from bodies to manifold bad? how else can they be put on?

 

If you go over the ITB/bike body threads again - that I'm sure you've read - you'll see pictures of much, much better ways for them to be joined.

 

Naturally a really short (intermediate gap between runner and body I mean) silicon hose joiner is not a total fail; but frankly it's a bodge.

 

Honestly: the general concensus on here is that socks are bad. That's been discussed too.

 

And I didn't want to offend anyone who had a Bogg Bros manifold. IMHO they're OK, but really you hit the nail on the head.

 

The point I/we're trying to make, is that what you're doing WILL work; but not as well as it could if you didn't try to do it on such a budget in such a way, as it brings a raft of typical problems, that many of us on here have experienced which we're trying to help you avoid.

Edited February 28, 2010 by DrSarty

[boombang 2]

socks are known to suck in restricting airflow and worse case bye bye engine

your mate might have just been lucky

True!

 

Once you've seen a sock sucked through into the inlet you'd never consider fitting them again.

[JRL 14 1 Cars]

Thanks for your help this is the sort of info I have been after. I do not like bodging and will pay out for proper stuff.

 

1. socks will no longer be used.

2. I will re consider MS although local mapper didnt mind them

3. look into another way of fitting the manifold.

 

I will keep going through the threads.

 

any other experiences or advice I would love to hear more. When i eventually have them on I will do an article and anyone else who is looking to do a similar project can have my plans instead of learning the hard and expensive way.

[mr_exe 1]

Shenpar do bike carb kits, I don't know much about them so I can't comment, but Dr Sarkys' summary is good advice, If you don't have the money to do it right, save up till you do.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Doing it cheaply isn;t always the best, At least with Omex/Emerald etc you have first class back up etc as most mappers can spend hours fixing things and without this the cost will go beyond a decent ECU make, All mappers I know won;t touch M/S for that very reason so worth bearing in mind.

[JRL 14 1 Cars]

I want to do a proper job without spending uneccersarily. there is a lot to get and it is off putting but i will persavere.

 

So I need a decent:

ecu omex or emerald,

sausage filter, (will 45 mm mini individual cone filters work?)

Loom

Anything else???

 

will the bike injector rail and tps be fine? will I need any sensors now the AFM is going.

 

I appreciate that you must get frustrated with people asking these questions often but someday I hope I can help any one of you out. Do miles or sandy live or work anywhere near west London Heathrow? could do with some professional help.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Not that far from you, about a hr on a good day. heading towards the other side of Southampton

[JRL 14 1 Cars]

I am waiting to get my tbs back from my local cnc & fabricator he is putting on the alu plate and trumpets in the chokes. How can I get him to attach the bodies to manifold without using silicone joiners? Miles I know You know your stuff from psooc and would like you to give me a quote on omex or emerald and set them up.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

long live megasquirt.......

 

yes it has some teething problems, but if you stick with it it can work.

 

i have had no end of trouble with mine but its all sorted now, it was mostly the bike tb's that were the trouble.

 

if i was gonna do it again i would still use ms and use the saved money to get some decent jenveys and a good manifold.

 

it really depends on how involved you want to be with it and how much perseverance you have.

 

 

...... let the ecu debate begin again

[Cameron 16]

socks are known to suck in restricting airflow and worse case bye bye engine

your mate might have just been lucky

 

Not only that but they ruin the pulse tuning and cost you power.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

I want to do a proper job without spending uneccersarily. there is a lot to get and it is off putting but i will persavere.

 

So I need a decent:

ecu omex or emerald,

sausage filter, (will 45 mm mini individual cone filters work?)

Loom

Anything else???

 

will the bike injector rail and tps be fine? will I need any sensors now the AFM is going.

 

I appreciate that you must get frustrated with people asking these questions often but someday I hope I can help any one of you out. Do miles or sandy live or work anywhere near west London Heathrow? could do with some professional help.

 

i used the bike tps on mine, but i wouldn't use the bike injector as i dont think they flow enough??

 

i bunged the holes and used the std gti6 injectors in the manifold

 

you will need an air temp sensor then can be brought from whoever you get the ecu from i do believe?

 

most ecu's come with a loom plug and tails to splice in to the main loom or build a new one from.