What To Look At Next?

[P_Monty 2]

Hi folks - as above, another none-starter....

 

Its ph1.5 1989 205 1.9GTi. The history is that it suddenly died while I was scraping ice off it and refused to re-start.

 

After a good look round the forums here I found a few things to check with the following results:

 

I've removed the imobiliser - that was an immediate improvement, the starter motor now springs into life.

I've got no sparks coming out of the coil.

There's fuel being pumped to the rail, but the plugs look and smell dry (and I'm sure that in the past if I've cranked it with a plug out, fuel has spurted out of the plug hole - this doesn't happen now).

I've swapped the ECU for one believed to be good - still no sparks or fuel in the cylinders)

While I was swapping the ECUs I measured the volts going to it - The signal from the relay was as expected (9.5V when cranking) and the throttle position sensor did as it should.

 

So, in summary, I don't believe in coincidences big enough for something in the ignition and in the fueling to fail at the same time and I'm guessing I've missed something obvious. While I'm sitting here charging the battery what do the experts here suggest I look at next? I've read about crash sensors which kill fuel and sparks in an accident - have I got one of those if so where is it? (The Haynes book of lies doesn't mention one).

 

Any advice gratefully received.

 

Thanks

 

Paul

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

No fuel coming from the injectors AND no spark sounds suspiciously like a crank angle sensor problem to me.

 

This is the thing on top of the gearbox reading the timing teeth off the flywheel.

 

It's could have just become unplugged, or it's gayed. I'd suggest a swap for a known working one and see what happens.

 

Other checks are:

* Is the fuel pump actually priming and running?

* Is there 12v at one pin on each of the injectors with the ignition on?

 

Simply check for 12v at the fuel pump and inj +ve terminals. Injs aren't always marked, but place the multimeter between the batt -ve and one of the 2 inj pins (same on each one) and you should get 12v with ignition on.

 

'Crash sensors' I've come across are just an inertia switch on the fuel pump circuit.

 

See how ya go.

 

P.S. What could make me look really silly here is that some (early) 205s apparently didn't have a CAS, but I'm trying to give advice anyway.

Edited February 27, 2010 by DrSarty

[welshpug 1,666]

Its an 8 valve so no crank sensor on most bar the late Cat+Motronic equipped engines, all runs from the Distributor on the Jetronic systems

 

in which case check that the cable from the distributor to the ignition amplifier is good, and that you have 12v to the coil.

Edited February 27, 2010 by welshpug

[P_Monty 2]

Thanks for that - I'll have a look at the crank sensor tomorrow in the daylight (assuming its not ****ing down with rain). The fuel is definitely being pumped - I took the hose off the rail and a little trickled out (ignition off) - when I turned the key it poured out at a vast rate of knots...

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

P.s. Welshpug - your answer came as I was typing mice so I didn't see it...

 

I'll have a look for a cable between the dizzy and the ignition amp too.

 

Cheers

Edited February 27, 2010 by P_Monty

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

your answer came as I was typing mice so I didn't see it...

 

 

Sorry for any confusion; but I did cover my ass. The logic was there, only not the part in question.

[P_Monty 2]

Hmm today's update...

12V on coil - check

Coil windings correct resistance - check

wire between dizzy and ignition amp - present (It look like the dizzy has to come off to check the continuity of the cable - is that right?)

12V on injectors - no not on either pin... Looking at the diagrams, I can't figure out where this is supposed to be coming from.

 

Any clues?

 

Thanks

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

12V on injectors - no not on either pin... Looking at the diagrams, I can't figure out where this is supposed to be coming from.

 

Tachy relay on an 8v I believe. (Mi's have either 2 separate relays or a double relay for fuel pump and injs).

[RP1983 4]

From what I got told on my thread the 12v comes from the fuel pump relay and is then grounded by the ecu.

 

It seems you have similar problems to mine.

[P_Monty 2]

Cheers DrSarty,

 

The obvious next question is what does the tachy relay look like and where is it? (I'm hoping its separate to the fuel pump relay as the pump appears to be working and that would confuse me...)

[welshpug 1,666]

its the same relay, it'll be bolted down next to your ECU.

[P_Monty 2]

Hmm I'm confused. The fuel is pumping fine, so the pump is getting power but the injectors aren't - it looks like I'm looking for a broken wire between the relay and the injectors (and trying to work out why I've got no sparks...)

 

Thanks all

[P_Monty 2]

Oops - in the spirit of double-check everything, I've just discovered I HAVE got 12V on the injectors (poxy meter wasn't making contact). But only when cranking, not with ignition only.

 

Any clues?

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Oops - in the spirit of double-check everything, I've just discovered I HAVE got 12V on the injectors (poxy meter wasn't making contact). But only when cranking, not with ignition only.

 

Any clues?

 

Well that sounds kinda correct. We're narrowing it down. Nice one.

 

It should definitely be live when cranking, but I believe it should also be live just with the ignition on, as it's just a switched live circuit that the ECU controls via grounding. It certainly is on systems I've built up.

 

To me it sounds like your tachy relay is playing up, or at least the wiring to/from it.

Edited February 28, 2010 by DrSarty

[P_Monty 2]

Oops - I haven't updated this.

 

The old girl runs once again.... Turns out to be a very dodgy connection to the low voltage side of the coil (I might even put the old ignition module back just to prove the point) a few minutes this a wire brush and some switch cleaner and she roared into life.

 

Next job is to cure the oil leak - The Torrey Canyon has nothing on this.

 

Thanks to all who helped...