Gti6 Gearbox

[stegti6 0]

ive tryed to search the site but it dont answer the questions i need answered. im gonna replace the gearbox on my 205 gti6,3rd gear crunches and i find 5th revs way to high at 70mph,i suspect its fitted with a 1.6 gear box but not having done the conversion i dont know.so my plans are to but a secondhand 1.6 box,first question is from wot model and year?i might as well do the clutch,so wot clutch do i use? ive read about lsd,how much and where from would be a bonus,now ive also heard that some ppl are using 5th gear from a 1.9 ,it got me thinking could you use the final gear from the gti6 box? if anyone has done this has it worked or is it not worth doing it at all.any feedback would be great,cheers

[chrisj21 2]

Most people use the Xsara VTS box for the conversion, 5 speed and seems to suit the engine very well, Xsara vts (2.0) is the same XU10J4RS engine as the 6.

 

For the model and year of box we would need to know whether it has reverse above first or below fifth on the gear knob? If it's above first (lift up reverse) its BE1, if below reverse it's BE3.

 

BE1 is phase 1/1.5 and BE3 is phase 2 as a general rule but some came with either during the crossover, the swap from phase 1.5 to 2 was around 1990/91 someone will no doubt know the exact year.

 

If your going to look at changing final gears etc then my advice would be to just use the xsara box fitted with the xsara clutch, much less hassle than rebuilding gearboxes.

 

Hope that helps a little

[stegti6 0]

yea thats great,gives me somewhere to start looking,reverse is 5th an down so it sounds like a be3.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

If it's a 1.6 box then the final drive ratio would be 4.06:1, whereas a VTS box I believe is a 4.43:1 (ie. same as an mi16).

 

If you're finding it revving to much at the moment at 70mph, and it *IS* a 1.6 box, then moving to a VTS box will only make things worse.

 

I suspect it's more the other way - maybe you have a 4.4 final drive already, or something even higher? What sort of revs at 70mph are we talking about? Are you on standard 15" rims/tyre profile?

[stegti6 0]

yea standard rims, its reving at about 4000rpm,it just seems to high and ideally i would like the 1.6 box for accelaration but i dont like the fact it revs high in 5th,so could i use the 6th gear from a 6 box?

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

By my little reckoning spreadsheet, a 1.6 box on an mi16 final drive should be 4000rpm at 70mph. With a 1.6 final drive, 4000 rpm would equate more to around 76mph. So I suspect you've got an mi16 in there already, going by the figures you've given.

 

A 1.9 final drive would give you around 84mph at 4000rpm (or say 3300rpm at 70mph).

 

Easiest swap would be the final drive, but obviously acceleration through the gears will suffer.

 

Having said that, the VTS box has a taller 5th than the other 5 speeds, so if you just swap the whole box for a VTS one, you'll be better off. You'll keep the short final drive and lower gears for acceleration, but 5th @ 4000rpm will equate to 82ish mph (ie. cruising speed at 70 will be a lot lower).

 

Route looks like a VTS box then

[stegti6 0]

ok,cheers for the info,their is a 1.6 box im looking at tonight,my idea is to use mine for a bit then rebuild the new one with wot i want in it,ive got time so hopefully ill do it in the summer,any guidance on lsd?

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Ah, LSDs. The never-ending forum question a search will turn up lots of discussion and opinions, mainly around Quaife ATB versus Tran-X plate diff (or equivalent).

 

In short it depends what you're using the car for. I have my opinions but I'm not going to start the whole debate off again

[stegti6 0]

Ah, LSDs. The never-ending forum question a search will turn up lots of discussion and opinions, mainly around Quaife ATB versus Tran-X plate diff (or equivalent).

 

In short it depends what you're using the car for. I have my opinions but I'm not going to start the whole debate off again

 

 

 

go on tell me your opinions could do with a good row..lol

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

LOL.

 

For road use, most people say "ATB". I've never tried one though. There's also some argument inside me that says if you really need a diff on the road then you've got a heavy right foot and/or you drive like a tw@t, in which case do everyone a favour and take it onto the track....

 

A plate diff works a heck of a load better but (i) they require maintenance over time depending upon how hard you work them and (ii) they require careful setup and (iii) they can exacerbate poor suspension setup and (iv) you really want to consider power steering if you're going to run them in a tight configuration (although it might be that I'm just a weak-armed pussy, tbh).

 

Ultimately ask yourself do you really need one? If you're doing competition then almost definately you do. If it's track days, then they'll certainly add to the performance. If you're just trundling around roads and find the odd bit of wheelspin annoying when you floor it in 1st/2nd, then there's probably better things to spend £600 on... (imho!)

 

My advice on experience would be a plate diff, preferably a ZF if you've got money coming out of your pockets... but this is assuming you really feel you need one

Edited February 24, 2010 by brumster

[stegti6 0]

sounds great,but unfortunatly i dont have money coming out of my ass,or is that ears.? so standard box for me then

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

Money coming out of any orifice would be beneficial for a ZF

[stegti6 0]

nice one,thank for the advice,just got my box tonight so ill take some pic in the morning then start the clean up..carnt wait