T3 Turbo - 300hp?

[Rob Turbo 3]

Even though my 16v turbo 205 is on the back burner I'm still making plans for it. The engine is built, just needs the exhaust manifold building, my original plan was to use my modified 8v turbo T25 with a "normal" exhaust housing, just because I already have it, but I've decided to sell that and go for a T3.

 

I was thinking a T3 from a S2 escort RS turbo with them being easy to come across for not a lot of money, does anyone know the spec of them and what they would be capable of? I'm going for a 2nd hand turbo to start with, even if it's just to get the manifold lined up right, then depending on the condition of it either rebuild it or keep it for spares and get a good one when I get to the stage where the car might start.

 

But is 300hp a realsitic figure for my planned setup? I'm not aiming for 300hp as such, if it's less than that I'm not going to hide in a corner and cry, but I've done 100hp (easily), I've done 200hp, so now 300hp would be nice!!

 

8v turbo block, gti6 head, s16 crank and pistons with 1mm taken off the top to lower compression a bit, home made exhaust manifold (not pretty but seperate runners up to the turbo @ around 34mm I.D. IIRC, it's been a long time since I bought the pipe for it!), 3" downpipe and possibly complete exhaust, decent sized front mount intercooler, standard gti6 inlet and obviously mappable ecu, which is more than likely going to be megasquirt, seeing as I already have it and I've used it on the last 2 engines I had in the 306!

 

Thanks,

Rob

[phat205 0]

I would think a T3 would be fine, anything bigger, T35 or T4 would be to big, the spool time would be to long, have you considered IHI or KKK from the vauxhall line up, i know they make good power on there 2.0 litres, a friend has a mk3 astra that running over 300bhp

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

A T3 is not "just" a T3. Depends on the size of the turbo. For the Escort RS unit it is this one I believe.

 

 

Which means circa 250bhp.

[Daviewonder 533 3 Cars]

A T3 is not "just" a T3. Depends on the size of the turbo.

 

Yeah, one from a Austin metro turbo might be a little pointless.

[Rob Turbo 3]

I know a T3 isn't just a T3, that's why I mentioned the one I was thinking about. The most I've managed to find out about the rs turbo T3 is the 42 AR compressor housing.

 

Would a bigger compressor wheel make any difference on it's own? 60 trim compressor wheels seem easy to come across. I know the housing will need machining but that's not a problem.

 

Even if 250bhp is the limit that'll do nicely, that way a bigger T3 can be easily fitted later if needed!

 

 

I'm browsing on my iPhone so I can't see whatever it is you've attatched Tom, I assume it's a map? Either way I'll see tomorrow when I'm home

Edited February 13, 2010 by Rob Turbo

[danpug 1]

Out of interest do you know what the rough limit of the turbo you are selling would be?

[Rob Turbo 3]

I have no idea to be honest, I'm sure there will be a map kicking about for it, I'm not sure what the turbine spec is as standard but the compressor is 80 AR with a 60 trim wheel, it was making a solid 18psi just before the head gasket went.

[danpug 1]

Don't suppose you have any idea what power it was making at that psi?

[Rob Turbo 3]

I don't I'm afraid, shortly after I had it RR'd on standard management I fitted a 306 xsi cam (which I'm also going to sell) and switched to megasquirt management with Saab turbo red injectors, I was working my way up the boost while mapping, I got to 18psi when the gasket went, the plan was to get it mapped to 20psi then take it for some fine tuning and a power run at the rollers. After the gasket went I decided to fit a v6 into the 306 and build a 16v turbo out of the 8v bits for the 205.

[craigmi16 0]

if you go on www.passionford.com and search for cvh 300bhp? there is lots of different info that you will find usefull and some rubbish pointless opinions but there is some good options and upgrades about the t3 from the 1.6 cvh rs turbo engine that might interest you

[kutija 1 1 Cars]

that's a t3 trim 45 with .36 A/R turbine housing ....

 

It's a max. 250 hp turbo but to reach that at some normal boost level you would need .48 A/R turbine housing .

In this setup 220 hp is a realistic number.

 

That number .42 is from compressor housing and most t3 share that housing.

 

For 300 hp you would need at least t3 trim 60 with .48 A/R turbine housing.

 

Most common is trim 50 and with .48 housing and it's good for 280 hp.

 

You can swap turbine housings between T3s becuase they all share the same turbine wheel but when you change compressor wheel you have to change the housing because of different inducer....

[Rob Turbo 3]

So with the standard rs turbo T3 I'll get in the reigon of 220bhp, then if I was to go for 300bhp I'd need a bigger turbine housing and a 60 trim compressor wheel with a machined housing?

 

What bhp would I be looking at with the standard turbine but 60 trim compressor wheel and machined housing?

Edited February 13, 2010 by Rob Turbo

[jimistdt 1]

Its odd that this has come up, I have been staring at a compressor map for the K14 for three days, it is incredible the amount of information on there. I am slowly beginning to understand it, but it's a bit like black magic to me at the minute.

 

I found a lot of maps for various turbos here http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbotech.html scroll to the bottom and theres some original maps.

[pablo 0]

why not get a 2nd hand mitsi evo turbo? Bound to be loads around you know what those boys are like for upgrading

[jimistdt 1]

Apologies for the hijack, but it's slightly relevant.

 

Can somebody tell me if I'm going in the right direction with this? At least in theory anyway, as that's all it is...

 

Based on K14 Turbo on a 1.8 (1769) TD @ 17 psi (on boost) with a pr of 2.156, and Ve of 90%

 

I've tried to plot the graph, assuming full boost at 2500 rpm (I need to get a boost gauge yet)

 

This is what I've come up with

 

 

It looks to be reasonably well matched till it goes over 3300 or so, what would be an experienced opinion on this?

[Rob Turbo 3]

I really can't get my head around how to read these maps, anyone know of a good guide?

 

Thanks,

Rob

[wracing 19]

http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/

 

very good does it for you, and the ve values are pretty good already.

 

or understanding them:

 

http://www.rbracing-rsr.com/turbotech.html

 

t3 50 trim.

 

thanks

 

james

Edited February 14, 2010 by wracing

[kutija 1 1 Cars]

So with the standard rs turbo T3 I'll get in the reigon of 220bhp, then if I was to go for 300bhp I'd need a bigger turbine housing and a 60 trim compressor wheel with a machined housing?

 

What bhp would I be looking at with the standard turbine but 60 trim compressor wheel and machined housing?

 

Well if you put 60 trim compressor you will be good for another 10-20 hp on the same boost level but you could have surge issues.

Anyway no point in 60trim with .36 turbine housing as it's a restriction.

Either .48 housing or even .63 with 60 trim especially on FWD.

On 2.0 litre 60 trim with 63. housing has positive boost at around 2500 rpm and full boost around 3500 rpm.

 

EVO turbo to work like it should would need twinscroll exhaust manifold as it is twinscroll turbo.

Without twinscroll manifold it would be too laggy...

 

 

About maps you have all the info you need at www.turbobygarrett.com

Just look at section turbotech.....

Edited February 14, 2010 by kutija

[Rob Turbo 3]

Thanks for all the replies. I'll have a look for a .48 or .63 housing, I believe sierra cosworth (not sure it it's both 2wd and 4x4 or just one or the other) T3's have a .48 but they have internal wastegate and a "special" exhaust outlet which I'd rather not have.

[danpug 1]

Out of interest Rob, what compression is your engine running? Any idea what a gti6 head on a std 2.0 turbo bottom end would give comression-wise?

[wracing 19]

the 2.0 turbo bottom end really isnt the strongest rod wise they are very think in comparison with other xu10s.

 

thanks

 

james

[danpug 1]

Why are they thinner? Did you get pm too?!!

[wracing 19]

last one i got was regards ready to weld kit, did you get my reply?

 

not sure why they are thinner they just are, im comparing 2.0 turbo vs s16 and mi rods.

 

ill post a pic if i can find one!

 

thanks

 

james

[Rob Turbo 3]

I'm using s16 rods and pistons (with 1mm skimmed off the top), I don't know what the cr is, I'm sure I worked it out when I was building the engine though!

[danpug 1]

last one i got was regards ready to weld kit, did you get my reply?

 

not sure why they are thinner they just are, im comparing 2.0 turbo vs s16 and mi rods.

 

ill post a pic if i can find one!

 

thanks

 

james

 

Oops, i'll pm you now!

 

Rob, did you choose the s16 rods for the above reason?

Edited February 15, 2010 by danpug