Sloppy Gear Change, Shortening The Throw, And Clutch Changes!

[Toilet Duck 0]

Ok after a 160 mile drive at the wheel of my new 205 CJ, I've come to a conclusion that there's a few jobs I need to do....

 

Amongst which I have identified a few problems:

 

Firstly the clutch is starting to slip (knew about this before getting the car), so I'll be having a go at this myself, is the gearbox removal procedure for the 1360 engine and box similar to the GTi guide on the main website by Jonmurgie? (Basicly I'm wondering if i can do this without an engine lift by dropping the box under the car). Also is there anything worth changing while i'm in there doing a clutch change?

 

Next is the gear lever is really sloppy, are there any common issues causing sloppy gear changes? In gear i can do 4-5" circles with my gearstick

 

Finally whats the easiest method of shortening the gear change? quick shift levers, or is it by another method?

 

I'll probably be back with more questions as time progresses and i fix more on the car, but it drives, and just needs some time to bring her back to her former glory!

[Baz 421]

TU's with MA gearboxes are different to the guide on the main site, but the same basic principles apply. Worth changing the diff seals and a few other bolts here and there while you're there, depends on the condition of everything which you'll find out when you start the job.

 

Lots of things that can cause a sloppy gear lever, the main ball joint on the subframe, check that the 13mm nut on the underside of the subframe holding it in place is tight. The play is also due to worn gear linkages, they have nylon lined cups that sit on the ball-joints, and these wear after time, and also the bushes in the gear lever and L-quadrant on the subframe pivots wear, they're cheap from Pug so worthwhile changing and do make a difference. Quickshift there's a few options, worth doing a search to find out what most do, as well as more answers to your questions!

[Jrod 7]

Ok after a 160 mile drive at the wheel of my new 205 CJ, I've come to a conclusion that there's a few jobs I need to do....

 

Amongst which I have identified a few problems:

 

Firstly the clutch is starting to slip (knew about this before getting the car), so I'll be having a go at this myself, is the gearbox removal procedure for the 1360 engine and box similar to the GTi guide on the main website by Jonmurgie? (Basicly I'm wondering if i can do this without an engine lift by dropping the box under the car). Also is there anything worth changing while i'm in there doing a clutch change?

 

Next is the gear lever is really sloppy, are there any common issues causing sloppy gear changes? In gear i can do 4-5" circles with my gearstick

 

Finally whats the easiest method of shortening the gear change? quick shift levers, or is it by another method?

 

I'll probably be back with more questions as time progresses and i fix more on the car, but it drives, and just needs some time to bring her back to her former glory!

 

 

Gearbox is easier on the CJ thasn a GTI, It's a similar job but it weighs alot less so easier to move about etc.

You need to establish where the play is coming from... The box, the rods or the pivot on the subframe. Check the ball on the subframe is bolted up tight and move the rods about a bit to see if they are worn. You can modify the L linkage but that involes cutting and welding. The easiest way is a GE quickshift kit.

 

Edit: beaten to it!

Edited February 8, 2010 by Jrod

[welshpug 1,662]

There's also a roll pin that secures a lever on the gearbox itself to a shift rod which can wear and cause very sloppy linkages on top of the causes that Baz highlighted above that contribute to a very sloppy gear linkage.

 

you can modify the shift to be shorter with a single drilled hole in the L shaped linkage and bolting on a replacement ball, "Miles" on here can supply them if he has one in stock

Edited February 8, 2010 by welshpug

[Baz 421]

You can modify the L linkage but that involes cutting and welding. The easiest way is a GE quickshift kit.

 

Please don't get one of those, they're w@nk IMO! the modified (properly) L-quadrants are miles better than those, and available from many places, including here, and me...

 

There's also a roll pin that secures a lever on the gearbox itself to a shift rod which can wear and cause very sloppy linkages on top of the causes that Baz highlighted above that contribute to a very sloppy gear linkage.

 

Especially on Earlier/BE1 gearboxes yes!! Some are drastically bad these days!

[Jrod 7]

Whats wrong with the GE linkage? Bear in mind the MA setup uses an odd shape L so its not as easy to modify.

[Baz 421]

That's what i was wondering, whther they're actually the same...

 

Those GE ones are terrible, not to mention fouling things, they fall off!

[Jrod 7]

A GTI L will not fit. I never had problems with the GE using a TU engine, never tried it with a XU though. We also used it on a rally car and that took some abuse and never had problems.

[Toilet Duck 0]

Wow, speedy replies!

 

On the sloppy gearbox are there any detent springs in the system?

 

I presume I have a different gearbox to the GTi's with my manly 1.4 engine would it be possible to lift back into position on my own, or would I still need an assistant if its a lighter gearbox?

 

This "L" bracket/linkage is it the Generic across all 205 models? or is it GTi Specific? If its generic accross the models, how much do you turn them out for Baz?

 

Also what does MA stand for?

Edited February 8, 2010 by Toilet Duck

[Jrod 7]

You will have a MA gearbox, GTI's use a BE. If you are fairly strong you'll lift it on your own, I tried to use a trolley jack before but found it easier to just man up and get on my back! The L brackets are different between GTI's and base models as are the gear rods. Miles actually supplys uprated rods now as I sent him some standard ones to copy.

 

MA is the type of gearbox fitted to TU engines.

Edited February 8, 2010 by Jrod

[Baz 421]

A GTI L will not fit. I never had problems with the GE using a TU engine, never tried it with a XU though. We also used it on a rally car and that took some abuse and never had problems.

 

You probably fitted it correctly with checks of the tightness at intervals then!

 

The couple i've experience, one fell off, and the other was loose and was twatting the exhaust manifold, and from memory it was only a standard one, so god knows how/if they fit with a 4 branch!

[Jrod 7]

You probably fitted it correctly with checks of the tightness at intervals then!

 

The couple i've experience, one fell off, and the other was loose and was twatting the exhaust manifold, and from memory it was only a standard one, so god knows how/if they fit with a 4 branch!

 

As I say, I've only used it with TU engines and there is loads of room at the back with them!

[Baz 421]

Yup, i was just thinking that, exhaust is on the other side!!

[Toilet Duck 0]

Just out of curiosity, if i just went to the dealers and got the proper spares, how much would it cost to replace these ball joints with new bits roughly?

 

And am I correct to presume that the effects of each of these individual sloppy ball joints is adding up to my sloppy gearstick?

[tdr_1976 41 1 Cars]

Hi,

 

I've done a variety of things to do away with the sloppy gear change on my XS.

 

The first thing was to fit a quick shift kit that fits onto the L lever, this made the change more slick and less sloppy.

 

The next thing on my list was to sort out the three gear rods themselves, I opted for a set of uprated steel socket double locking rods from Pug Sport's shop on ebay, these further reduced the play in the nylon ends and made it smoother.

 

The last and most costly thing to finish it all off, was to fit a set of Group N engine and gearbox mounts, it's fantastic now, but, the downside of the new mounts is that it isn't the best option for a road car, I use mine as a daily driver, but is also a road rally car.

 

The engine mounts reduce the amount of engine "Rocking", which contributes towards difficulty in selecting gears.

 

Here's a pic of my set up, not the best pic, but it gives you the idea.

 

Edited February 8, 2010 by tdr_1976

[jackherer 543]

You probably fitted it correctly with checks of the tightness at intervals then!

 

The couple i've experience, one fell off, and the other was loose and was twatting the exhaust manifold, and from memory it was only a standard one, so god knows how/if they fit with a 4 branch!

 

I fitted one to Richard's 1.6 years ago and it was still tightly attached when I bought the car off him. I don't particularly like them and it was very awkward to fit and get it tightened fully but once it was on there were no clearance issues and it didn't come off.

[Baz 421]

I guess i was just unlucky, iirc one of them was on the Wheeler Dealer's sh!tter, so makes sense considering the rest of the car!

[Toilet Duck 0]

 

Was replacing my exhaust centre section this evening, and got as afr as removing the exhaust before it went dark. But I did get a good look at the gear select rods.

 

OK, on your pic the single short rod that does not attach to the L shape bellcrank, and instead goes from a chunky rod (presumably from the gearstick) to a lever on the gearbox seems really sloppy. Its the input lever that comes out of the gearbox. The lever can be moved in and out relatively easily by hand on the gearbox. So is this normal, or can this be tightened up?

 

Just out of curiosity, which set of rods do what? ie which rods control the forward/backward movement (1st to 2nd etc), and which rods control side to side motion (moving across the gate sideways, going across into reverse etc)?

[DRTDVL 4 1 Cars]

For the problem with the in gear slop you might want to look at the bushes in the gearstick itself.

 

MA Box:The parts i'm talking about is number 4

http://www.stuartmcguire.co.uk/pug/GB/205F/2/24A20A.HTM

 

BE Box: Number 7

http://www.stuartmcguire.co.uk/pug/GB/205F/2/24A02A.HTM

 

I found these worn as it was causing problems selecting 3rd, and lots of in gear play.

Edited February 10, 2010 by DRTDVL

[skinner2k3 3]

I have a GE on mine, its an XU with a 4 branch manifold. Not had any clearance issues but it has come loose in the past. It didnt fall right off but rather started to rotate around the ball joint effectively shortening the lever and pushing the gear stick further and further back. With the handbrake on you couldnt engage 3rd!

[jackherer 543]

IIRC they use nyloc nuts, maybe they need to be replaced after each tightening to ensure they stay fastened?

[Toilet Duck 0]

IIRC they use nyloc nuts, maybe they need to be replaced after each tightening to ensure they stay fastened?

Is that the gearbox input lever that flopping about?

[joe1joe 3]

i have just done a quick shift two days ago and my car is a tu setup, i just added 20-22 mm to the arm, and makes a big diffrence indeed!! its nearly the same process as doing the gti setup