What's Better? 306 Turbo D Or 306 Hdi?

[si-mi16 0]

hi all,

 

I know is not 205 related but hey it's stil a pug.

I am looking at getting a cheap run about, diesel power. I have been looking at either a 306 hdi or 306 turbo diesel.i know the difference between the two in terms of engines,performance and ecomony. But what's the reliability like on these cars as i've goggled them both and found mixed reviews. I'm looking for a decent, reliable and ecomonical car so if anyody has experience in these cars or know of any pros or cons then i would be greatful for any info. thanks for reading

[welshpug 1,657]

performance is similar, economy higher from the HDI.

 

less to go wrong on the mechanical engine though.

 

you can get a HDI fairly cheap now, best of the bunch is a DTurbo HDi, but they still pull a fair premium, often as much or more than a decent gti6, they are pretty much a diesel 5 speed gti underneath bar the 266mm front brakes which are perfectly adequate.

 

depends how cheap you want it and how willing to do work to them you are.

[Anthony 1,003]

I've owned both, and still own a HDi

 

The 1.9 TD engine is a simple mechanical beast that is pretty hardy - change the oil and coolant when specified as well as the cambelt, and it will just keep going. The only real weakspot on them is the headgasket, so make sure you check that - two of the four 1.9 TD's I've had suffered HG failure. It's pretty agricultural though compared to modern diesels - it's basically identical to the early 80's engines Peugeot did - and there's alot of tired neglected examples out there now so be choosy.

 

HDi's are a much more refined engine and economy is about 20% better in my experience. There's more to go wrong as it has a whole host of sensors and electronics, but generally speaking, you usually only hear of problems with the low pressure (lift) fuel pump and the fuel pump relay - mines been through several of each judging by the history - besides that, they're normally pretty reliable. The same engine in a 406 was (and still is to a point) the choice of taxi drivers across the country, racking up big mileages.

[mr_exe 1]

Having read the title, I can't help but think of Harry Hill

 

I can't really comment on the hdi as i've only driven a couple briefly, but I had a dturbo for nearly 2 years and I can't see how the Hdi could be worse.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

I swapped from a 205 STDT to a 306 hdi D turbo & even though mine doesn't run 100% still get an easy 45-50mpg minimum in daily use.

 

Last year I went to Cornwall for a weekend, brimmed it in Leeds & filled it up again on the Sunday to drive home with just under 1/4 of a tank left after 650 miles.

 

Even with the issues at idle it still starts first time everytime & has been 100% reliable in 16k since I bought it.

 

Graham.

[one-lady-owner 1]

I would probably always say the old DTurbo (Citroen speak.... , that should be Turbo D as this is a pug forum!!!) but I've always been a mechanical kinda guy rather than an electronic kinda guy, mostly due to the fact I understand a mechanical engine, but really am completely baffled by modern electronic controlled engines......

 

On the reliability front, I've owned two diesel citroens, one N/A, and one turbo, one with over 100k on the clock and one with over 200k and both have been perfectly reliable, and quite a bit cheaper to buy

[phat205 0]

My olds have got a 406 HDI which they use to travel to the house in france. is done about 250,000 miles and still runs like a dream, the old man builds engines for a living and he thinks its great.

 

matt

[si-mi16 0]

all great replies guys, im looking to spend anywhere from say £800-£1500 tops.

[Anthony 1,003]

That budget will buy you a good example of either to be honest.

 

You'll likely get a better condition / lower mileage 1.9 TD for the same money as the equivilent HDi, but on the other hand, a HDi will likely be a newer example and are usually better speced for the same trim level as most are Phase 3 cars.

[All Praise The GTI 3]

ive owned both and currently got a hdi and i love it and i had a gti-6 previously. obviously not as quick but cheap insurance and much better fuel economy even tho mine isnt totally standard stil returns a good 35-40mpg and is fairly quick for a derv and loads of torque

yopu can get a decent(if you can find one) old dturbo for a grand but saying that the same money could get a nice gti6 so i spent a little more and got my astor dturbo hdi although i got mine quite chep i think ive seen others go for about 1500 ish and the feel allot better on the road then my old dturbo did

but either way both nice cars

[si-mi16 0]

seen a few nice ones on both ebay and pistonheads,will look on autotrader next me thinks. what would you class as high milage on these engines? or is milage not really a issue aslong as the service histoery is there to back up its been looked after well?

[Anthony 1,003]

Mileage on the engine isn't too much of an issue in my opinion - the rest of the car tends to fall apart around it

 

How it has been cared for and the sort of journeys it has done are far more important when it comes to condition - I'd have no issue at all with a 200k example that had plodded up and down the motorway its whole life but had been serviced and maintained properly. My own HDi has 171k on the clock now and honestly feels like a car with half that, mainly due to the previous owner keeping it in fine fettle with no expense spared.

 

The highest of my previous 1.9 TD's was on 235k miles or thereabouts, and up until the time when the headgasket failed, it still pulled strongly, barely used a drop of oil between services, and never missed a beat.

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

Avoid airconned R plate DTurbos as there was a batch of these that had a tendency to throw rods through the side of the blocks. I can't exactly remember why, but I know of a lot of examples.

HDIs often come with half leather, side skirts and cyclone 15" wheels so are better specced. Rear beams go negative camber over time like a 205 so watch for that as it will be £300 of your budget gone

[Veero 1]

I did 42k in a year in my 306 HDi. Not even a hint of smoke when I sold it on at 180 odd thousand miles. Much more refined and less agricultural engine in it that the DTurbo. Sure it's simpler but with so many HDis around and places like this for information for easy fixes a slightly more advanced and electronically controlled engine shouldn't put you off. If I hadn't found my A4 so cheap I probably would have been looking for and would now have another 306 HDi.

 

But yeah watch out for failed trailing arm bearings. High milers will probably have obvious camber, particularly on the NSR wheel if they've not had any TLC.

[chris-stdt 0]

Cant comment on the hdi but ive had three 1.9 d turbos and there great if maintained well ,as has been said 97-98 turbo diesels have been known to throw a rod due to fatige but i dont think its just the airconned cars and to be fair its a rare fault .

 

With the cars being 12-13 years old now i think if ths was going to happen it would have done so by now

[welshpug 1,657]

Its the DHY engine that threw rods, just happened that the afflicted batch was used in Turbo diesel 306's around 98 and that most had aircon, I do believe it was a batch of N/A conrods that was used in a TD engine that caused the issue, a somewhat strange cause but goes to show that the Turbo engines really were uprated over the standard straight diesels.

 

It seems the ones that are going to go pop have already done so as I haven't heard of one for a few years now apart from those being tuned and driven hard, that's to be expected when you try and double the power output on standard components!

 

Mileage has nothing to do with how soon the beams go, its pot luck and inevitable if its been lowered without care, similarly with headgaskets, they don't "go at 150k" etc unless they haven't been looked after (aka knackered radiators coolant leaks seized fans etc)

[chris-stdt 0]

A mate of mine worked for peugeot and i spoke to him recently about the flat diesel conrod theory and he said that it was false as the gudgen pins are a different size on the two lots of conrods so they cant be mixed up

 

That may be untrue as i have never had the two lots of conrods side by side

 

Also whos to say that the engine in a 1996 car is the original and hasnt come from a 98 car ?

Edited February 6, 2010 by chris-stdt

[Veero 1]

Mileage must be a large contributory factor to beam bearings going surely? All the Pug cars we've had in the family have all had beam bearings go at high mileage, even the 1.1 205s that haven't been ragged or lowered. Obviously it's far too much of a sweeping statement to say "all beams fail at x mileage". My HDI NSR bearing was totally disintegrated at 150k, the OSR wasn't far behind. I have no idea what TLC it had beforehand, I suspect not much.

 

Just be more careful when looking at high milers. Chances are they've not had much TLC then there's a good chance a beam bearing will be shot, even more likely on a lowered car or one that's been ragged.

[Anthony 1,003]

Agree with Veero - whilst mileage isn't an exclusive factor to beams dying, it is certainly a major contributory one.

 

Whilst sharing a similar design, 306's in general seem to be much harder on rear beams than 205's are, partly due to the higher spring rates from the stiffer torsion and anti-roll bars (on the sportier models anyway) and partly the increase weight. Certainly the vast majority of 306 beams that I've pulled apart over 100k or so have been dying.

[one-lady-owner 1]

Saying that My ZX is on original beam bearings (at least there's no mention of beam bearings in any paperwork or by the previous owner) at 217k, there's no noise, they move freely and there's no funny camber or anything on either rear wheel, so as said above mileage may be a contributing factor, but not the be all and end all.

[si-mi16 0]

may sound abit of a simple question to be answer to people in the know, but hows the bet way to check the rear beam or any of the suspension lfor that matter?

[Anthony 1,003]

306 rear beams are a similar design to 205 and 309 beams, so most of what you'll find on a search for 205 beams will also apply to 306 beams.

 

Basically, unless you strip them down you can't be sure that the beam is in good condition, but the presence of excessive camber on one or both sides, squeaking/groaning noises, one or both sides siezed, or play between the trailing arm and beamtube - means that it's almost certainly knackered.

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

TBH, any 306 you look at buying its well worth budgeting for at least a beam refurb asap (along with a cambelt & tensioners) just for peice of mind so its not going to catch you out next MOT & give an unexpected big garage bill.

 

For the sake of ~£80 for bearings etc if its good (doesn't need radius arm shafts), its well worth while.

 

Graham.