Rear Beam Tube

[mhyphenl 10 1 Cars]

I've spent all morning trying to dismantle a rear beam. All I need is the tube as my trailing arms, shafts, brakes atc are all in good nick. It was very rusted but all was going to plan until I tried to extract the trailing arms. On my old but damaged tube all i needed to do was turn the locking double ended screw at the end of the torsion rod and it pushed the shaft and trailing arm off, (very lucky!). With this one being rusted I knew it would be a fight but I had to hit the damn thing so hard I actually pushed the trailing arm off the shaft, (I beleive there pressed on with a couple of tonnes!) leaving the shaft in the tube. On closer inspection the shaft was to one side of the tube, well and truly shafted, (forgive me!) . It's fairly clear that even if I got it out it will have ovaled the beam tube inside.! Does anyone have or know where I could get either just a tube, even one already refurbed with new bearings, or just a non knackered rear beam I'll actually be able to dismantle??

[welshpug 1,655]

so to recap you're just after a serviceable 205 beam tube, and this should really have been in the wanted section?

 

I'm not certain who in your area could help, but I'd try a PM to Anthony and possibly a few others that do beam rebuilding who's names escape me, they may have a decent donor beam tube you could purchase.

 

P.S, to aid finding one yourself from a breakers, pretty much any 205 beam tube will suffice bar the very earliest ones, of which not many made it to the UK.

 

the base model ones are the best to buy as their soft torsion bars and lack of ARB means they move a lot more and wont be as prone to seizing as a gti unit, take a few tools with you to pull the arms off before you havd over the cash too to ensure you dont pay for an overpriced lump of scrap metal

Edited February 4, 2010 by welshpug

[jord294 91]

I'm not certain who in your area could help, but I'd try a PM to Anthony and possibly a few others that do beam rebuilding who's names escape me, they may have a decent donor beam tube you could purchase.

 

me perhaps

 

i've got three ready shot blasted and powder coated tubes

 

or any 205s at your local scrapyards will have a beam to suit

[mhyphenl 10 1 Cars]

Bingo! Sorry for the misplacement but needs must! I'm in Derby so if anyone in the midlands can help please PM me to let me know!

[mhyphenl 10 1 Cars]

so to recap you're just after a serviceable 205 beam tube, and this should really have been in the wanted section?

 

I'm not certain who in your area could help, but I'd try a PM to Anthony and possibly a few others that do beam rebuilding who's names escape me, they may have a decent donor beam tube you could purchase.

 

P.S, to aid finding one yourself from a breakers, pretty much any 205 beam tube will suffice bar the very earliest ones, of which not many made it to the UK.

 

the base model ones are the best to buy as their soft torsion bars and lack of ARB means they move a lot more and wont be as prone to seizing as a gti unit, take a few tools with you to pull the arms off before you havd over the cash too to ensure you dont pay for an overpriced lump of scrap metal

 

I have a temporary beam on at the moment which is off a gtx but the beam tube is actually smaller in diameter! Everything fits into it but firstly the collar/bracket thing won't tighten onto it and secondly I'm a little worried about it being less strong as its thinner. Plus I'm a gimp and want it to be right.

[Anthony 1,002]

I have a temporary beam on at the moment which is off a gtx but the beam tube is actually smaller in diameter! Everything fits into it but firstly the collar/bracket thing won't tighten onto it and secondly I'm a little worried about it being less strong as its thinner. Plus I'm a gimp and want it to be right.

A base model tube works just fine in my experience and I've never heard of one bending, even when used for rallying etc or with uprated torsion and anti-roll bars.

 

Personally I don't bother with the beam strap, but if you really want to, you'll need one from a 3dr base model 205 - as you've found out, the GTi one doesn't fit properly because of the difference in beamtube diameter. 5dr base models don't have a strap at all, neither do 309's.

 

Fair enough if you want it to be "right" though

 

(PS. Put up a proper wanted post in the correct forum, and you'll get alot more people viewing it than tacking it onto the end of a technical question thread)

[mhyphenl 10 1 Cars]

Thanks for the Advice Anthony. Jord from above is going to sort out a fully refurbed beam tube only for me which is excellent.

 

To continue on the advice front though. I now have two trailing arms with their torsion bars still attached (the end with the offset washer and torx screw). Cleaned them out and plus gassed them but can't get the torx screw to budge. I really dont want to round off the hole d so it can't be undone. Any advice? (I rounded the hole on one before and gave up but thats not an option this time!)

[welshpug 1,655]

a manual impact driver I find gets them out every time.

 

failing that if the head is damaged I'd either use a sharp chisel or drill the head off the bolt.

[mhyphenl 10 1 Cars]

a manual impact driver I find gets them out every time.

 

failing that if the head is damaged I'd either use a sharp chisel or drill the head off the bolt.

 

Thats twice is as many weeks someone has advised an impact driver for a job so i'm going to invest.

 

Also as for extracting the bar when thats out, is a slide hammer the best option?

[welshpug 1,655]

A slide hammer is ok on ones that have been apart fairly recently and ones where the grease is still present, but it doesnt take much for them to be rather useless, a puller like the one Tom Fenton makes seems far more capable especially with more stubborn ones.

 

A press will make light work if you have access to a tall enough one, though I've not yet had issue with using a sacrificial bolt in the end of a torsion bar and the VBFH* on stubborn bars

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Very Big F***** Hammer

[mhyphenl 10 1 Cars]

A slide hammer is ok on ones that have been apart fairly recently and ones where the grease is still present, but it doesnt take much for them to be rather useless, a puller like the one Tom Fenton makes seems far more capable especially with more stubborn ones.

 

A press will make light work if you have access to a tall enough one, though I've not yet had issue with using a sacrificial bolt in the end of a torsion bar and the VBFH* on stubborn bars

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Very Big F***** Hammer

 

Is it better to remove them while everything is on the car? Is toms puller shown anywhere? Also with a sacrificial bolt, is that just for hitting rather than damage the end of the bar with the VBFH ? Sorry for all the questions but i guess its best to be prepared!

[welshpug 1,655]

Tom has a thread in the group buys section IIRC, but I think best to PM as he makes them on demand now I believe.

 

yes the sacrificial bolt is to prevent any damage to the splines and any mushrooming that may occur.

[Anthony 1,002]

To continue on the advice front though. I now have two trailing arms with their torsion bars still attached (the end with the offset washer and torx screw). Cleaned them out and plus gassed them but can't get the torx screw to budge. I really dont want to round off the hole d so it can't be undone. Any advice? (I rounded the hole on one before and gave up but thats not an option this time!)

As Welshpug said, an impact driver works wonders for getting those torx bolts out and 90-95% of the time they'll come out fine, although there will be the odd one that is so rusty and siezed that it'll round off regardless. Try to get as much of the crap out of the torx bolt as possible so that the socket goes all the way in - a sharp pointy briddle (sp?) or similar and a bit of WD40 is ideal for this and for getting the dirt out from around the offset washer.

 

As for removing the torsion bars, unless you're lucky they're going to be pretty siezed in place. Tom Fenton's torsion bar puller does a pretty good job and will free most bars off, but ultimately you're going to need a hydraulic press for the more stubborn bars - I regularly see 8-10 tons pressing out bars that have siezed in place to give you some idea, normally freeing off with an almighty bang.

 

Typically in my experience, the drivers side arm is the one likely to cause issue as the splines are more exposed to the elements and tend to corrode and sieze in as a result. Passenger side arm is normally alot better, as the ARB end plate partly covers one end, and the splines are further recessed into the bar away from the element.

 

Good luck!

[mhyphenl 10 1 Cars]

As Welshpug said, an impact driver works wonders for getting those torx bolts out and 90-95% of the time they'll come out fine, although there will be the odd one that is so rusty and siezed that it'll round off regardless. Try to get as much of the crap out of the torx bolt as possible so that the socket goes all the way in - a sharp pointy briddle (sp?) or similar and a bit of WD40 is ideal for this and for getting the dirt out from around the offset washer.

 

As for removing the torsion bars, unless you're lucky they're going to be pretty siezed in place. Tom Fenton's torsion bar puller does a pretty good job and will free most bars off, but ultimately you're going to need a hydraulic press for the more stubborn bars - I regularly see 8-10 tons pressing out bars that have siezed in place to give you some idea, normally freeing off with an almighty bang.

 

Typically in my experience, the drivers side arm is the one likely to cause issue as the splines are more exposed to the elements and tend to corrode and sieze in as a result. Passenger side arm is normally alot better, as the ARB end plate partly covers one end, and the splines are further recessed into the bar away from the element.

 

Good luck!

 

 

Cheers for all the help guys. I could get away with not disturbing them as they're set at standard height anyway but it makes bringing it all up to 'as new' standard a little tricky, i think i'd rather know it was all in fully working order. £32 for the puller is ok if it works every time. I think i might just try my local garage and get a price per press!

[jord294 91]

another option, is to drill into the centre of the torx head, as so as the offset washer can be removed, and then drill what's left of the torx bolt thread, and re-tap

 

i've had to do this a couple of times

 

but luck has also been on my side

 

then you can fit a short m8 bolt with thick flat washer, where the double ended screw goes. place arm on solid flat object or block of wood, get your trusty BFH, and whack the end where the m8 bolt is, downwards.

[mhyphenl 10 1 Cars]

another option, is to drill into the centre of the torx head, as so as the offset washer can be removed, and then drill what's left of the torx bolt thread, and re-tap

 

i've had to do this a couple of times

 

but luck has also been on my side

 

then you can fit a short m8 bolt with thick flat washer, where the double ended screw goes. place arm on solid flat object or block of wood, get your trusty BFH, and whack the end where the m8 bolt is, downwards.

 

That will be tried before paying for a press, I'd buy a press but you can only get 2-3 tonnes of pressure without paying big money so its not worth it. Put it this way, i hit the siezed trailing arms on this old beam hard enough to get the trailing arm to come off the shaft! I guess the only problem with hitting the far end of the torsion bar is that it will absorb some of the impact along its length. It'll be a noisy sunday im my area!!!

[jord294 91]

i have every confidence in you

 

i once stripped a beam that was so seized the arm came off leaving the shaft in the tube, but also made a hole in the arm casting from hitting it so hard

[mhyphenl 10 1 Cars]

i have every confidence in you

 

i once stripped a beam that was so seized the arm came off leaving the shaft in the tube, but also made a hole in the arm casting from hitting it so hard

 

Yeah, mine's left the shaft in the tube and it aint movin' . I take it the tube was scrap?!

Edited February 5, 2010 by mhyphenl

[jord294 91]

absolutely ****** !

 

once the trailing arm leaves the shaft in the tube, it's time to call it a day

[Alastairh 47]

Rubbish. I had the exact same problem this week stripping a Xsara VTS beam. These beams generally take alot of abuse and propane! But anyway, with the arms knocked out it, it left both shafts in the tube. Then just simply get a skinny bean 205 torsion / arb and knock the shaft out from the inside and it revealed a pair of minty shafts!

 

This isn't the first time its happened to me either.

 

Al

[mhyphenl 10 1 Cars]

Rubbish. I had the exact same problem this week stripping a Xsara VTS beam. These beams generally take alot of abuse and propane! But anyway, with the arms knocked out it, it left both shafts in the tube. Then just simply get a skinny bean 205 torsion / arb and knock the shaft out from the inside and it revealed a pair of minty shafts!

 

This isn't the first time its happened to me either.

 

Al

Problem is on mine, the shafts are clearly way off centre so the bearings have colapsed and the shaft has carved the inside of the beam. I might abuse the beam and get them out just to wonder at the self destructive nature of the design. How someone was driving the car I don't know! . Anyway will keep you posted but I'm defo going to have a nice beam of Jord

[Anthony 1,002]

Problem is on mine, the shafts are clearly way off centre so the bearings have colapsed and the shaft has carved the inside of the beam.

If the shafts are clearly on the wonk and siezed to the point that the arms came off the shafts, then its fair to say that the tube will be ovalled and fubar quite frankly. I'm still at a loss as to explain Al's happenings mind you when the shaft/tube/bearings were good, as it's typically ~6 ton to press the trailing arm shaft out of the arm...

[Tom Fenton 1,540]

I think I've come up with a way to reclaim the tubes, if anyone has one that has bad wear I'd be interested to have it.

[jimistdt 1]

I have a tube I'm willing to donate for experimentation. Doesn't matter if you kill either, as it's u/s anyway.

 

 

Let me know Tom, and I'll see about getting it to you.

[welshpug 1,655]

I think I've come up with a way to reclaim the tubes, if anyone has one that has bad wear I'd be interested to have it.

 

I'd be interested to see that, I had thought about Belzona carefully moulded in for the outer bearing but couldn't figure any way to do anything similar for the inner one.

 

I would offer one of a few damaged crossmember tubes I have here but you're a bit far away