309 Driveshafts And Subframe Welding

[joe1joe 3]

i am currently replacing my subframe on my xs for a gti subframe, as the tracktion control arms are nackerd, and i did fit "new" parts a while ago,

 

and now i feel like giving the gti setup a go, has anyone ran the 309 lower arms with standerd driveshafts? as i have looked into and it seems the diffrence in driveshaft is only 10

 

10mm (compressed) as surely if the car is lowerd aswell then this should help aid the shorter 205 shaft with 309 arms? just a thought!!? and does anyone have any pictures of a

 

subframe sitch welded? and have they found it to be a improvement without the shell being stich welded aswell, any problems with distortion etc?

 

cheers all

[joe1joe 3]

anyone?

 

as i have searched and havnt found anyone who has tried the 309 shaft with standerd wishbones?

[Anthony 1,002]

There has been countless threads on using 205 driveshafts with 309 wishbones!

 

In summary, it's hit and miss - some people don't have any problems, whereas others have had driveshafts pop-out on full lock.

[joe1joe 3]

yes your right and i have gone through many of them, but none of them realy stated they have tried using the standard drive shaft with the 309 arm, or wether there car was

 

lowerd which i thought would make a diffrence,

 

i have found a very good site which shows the number of splines at each end of drive shafts which can be helpfull when sourcing them.....

 

 

and surely someone has stitch welded there sub frame??

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

My mate ryan stdt on here has stitch welded his subframe, I helped out. No pictures though.

Does increase stiffness on the front 10 fold in his opinion

[danny56712 1]

My mate ryan stdt on here has stitch welded his subframe, I helped out. No pictures though.

Does increase stiffness on the front 10 fold in his opinion

 

 

How exactly do you do this stitch welding lads?

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Grind off the paint were the 2 lips of metal overlap (joined by spot welds) and weld an inch leave an inch. Don't weld the whole lot it'll crack straight along the weld.

 

MIG welder will do the job fine

[Cameron 16]

The subframe is only spot welded together, so you run a weld along the seam to give it a little more strength. You basically weld for about 50mm, leave a gap of 50-100mm, then weld 50mm - hence the "stitch" part.

 

Ah you beat me to it! Yeah MIG welding is definitely the best way to do it, as long as you don't leave a trail of bird s*it along it. And give the seam a REALLY bloody good clean first - back to bare metal.

Edited January 27, 2010 by Cameron

[danny56712 1]

The subframe is only spot welded together, so you run a weld along the seam to give it a little more strength. You basically weld for about 50mm, leave a gap of 50-100mm, then weld 50mm - hence the "stitch" part.

 

 

possible with eletric weldor? Im running a basic rally car, any other key areas to weld lads?

[Cameron 16]

Electric welder being..? MIG, TIG, stick, laser, electron beam?

Edited January 27, 2010 by Cameron

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Sorry Cameron

 

Probably lovely MMA (stick) welding

 

Been welding all day and I smell lovely

Edited January 27, 2010 by Paul_13

[danny56712 1]

Sorry Cameron

 

Probably lovely MMA (stick) welding

 

Been welding all day and I smell lovely

 

 

sorry lads yes i meant stick hahah

 

and any other areas ye consider essential to weld

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

That'll do on the subframe to be honest. Just clean it up and you should see where it needs reinforcing/welding.

 

Otherwise stitch weld your chassis, might be worth researching a bit if your going to enter competitions etc. They may have requirements to how it's done.

[danny56712 1]

That'll do on the subframe to be honest. Just clean it up and you should see where it needs reinforcing/welding.

 

Otherwise stitch weld your chassis, might be worth researching a bit if your going to enter competitions etc. They may have requirements to how it's done.

 

 

no its night navigations so no regs that way but main prob is only have a stick weldor so where else is do able as to say

[Cameron 16]

Been welding all day and I smell lovely

 

Same here!

 

I'm not sure seam welding your chassis is all that worth it.. It does stiffen it up but it's a right ballache! I've seen a fair few seam welded chassis where they haven't cleaned all the sealant and paint off and it's like looking at a volcanic mountain range! Porous welds aren't going to add any stiffness!

 

Also, when you seam weld a chassis you only need to stitch it. I remember somebody on here (I forget who) that used a 25kg reel of wire fully welding every single seam on their 205! Pointless!

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Also, when you seam weld a chassis you only need to stitch it. I remember somebody on here (I forget who) that used a 25kg reel of wire fully welding every single seam on their 205! Pointless!

 

Oh dear! Not good.

 

Fully welding it will not do any favours, will stiffen it up way too much and you'll start cracking your nice new welds in no time if you drive hard.

 

Do it inch by inch and you can't go wrong, but not cleaning the seam sealer off is a school boy error!

[Cameron 16]

sorry lads yes i meant stick hahah

 

and any other areas ye consider essential to weld

 

Just noticed this.. I wouldn't try stick welding the chassis unless you're really very very good at it. Stick welding is difficult enough to control on thick materials, on the tin foil that Peugeot makes their cars out of you're going to have an absolute nightmare. You'll be fine on the subframe though, it's a fair bit thicker.

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

^ Agreed, just getting arc started is hard enough if you haven't done it before.

And I seriously wouldn't attempt the chassis, you will be blowing massive holes in it if you have the wrong rod. And then you have the problem of getting a welder that will go low enough. MIG/TIG all the way!

[Mad Scientist 106]

I was told the group A cars had no seam welding of the shell and, as far as the subframe goes, they sometimes replaced the hollow rear strengthening tube for solid, but thats it.

 

Food for thought.

 

[Cameron 16]

I was told the group A cars had no seam welding of the shell..

 

Is that down to regulations though?

[philfingers 5]

this may give you some idea. It's not my photo, no idea where it came from but i saved it from somewhere

[danny56712 1]

this may give you some idea. It's not my photo, no idea where it came from but i saved it from somewhere

 

 

cheers for the pics lads and i agree with all advice cheers

[joe1joe 3]

that pic does help.....

 

maybe it may be worth cutting the back tube out and replaceing with a thicker tube?? (need to support frame to stop possible distortion whilst welding in a bar)

 

and maybe a tube on the front???

 

and thats wat i was thinking realy every inch

 

and thanks to baz got my subframe !!

[Baz 421]

Is that down to regulations though?

 

Not for GpA i wouldn't have thought!

[joe1joe 3]

well i have stich welded the subframe, and now it painted, had bit of trouble with oil coming from the joints which made it s*ity to weld, think it would have been beter to get it dipped cleaned first (have had this before) instead of cleaning it with whitespirt as cant get all the oil out!!