Engine Conversions.need Help!

[adam2oh5 0]

hello im adam and still am pretty new to this website.

Ive just finished my first project, it was a full rebuild on a 1.9 gti.and kinda fell in love with it from there.as it was fun pulling the xu engine down to every bolt,dowl and just generally stripping and renewing or making things better on the engine.

The car is on the road and runs fine.the only problem is im 19 years old (dont want to sound abit stupid) and grew up being very speedy.the xu engine can not evan come close to the kind of power im looking for. i mean dont get me wrong the 205 is a fun car anyway and you dont need the speed to always have fun as i learnt from my first car the mk1 golf.

Sorry to ramble but i want a newer easyier engine to tune. i dont want to go the mi16 route as i know i might upset a few people but the engines are getting on abit now and my mates has gave him a couple of troubles, its just put me off really.the v6 route is out the question becuase im not that clever and im not into the cram it in there sort of thing.

So i look at the 306 Xsi/Gti6 route! what i wanna know is these are the same engines yes?few differences?is this engine used in any other car like the 406? as i know there in the xsara vts im on a budget as my jobs not amazing but do work in the motor trade.i just need to be pointed in the right direction by people who have been there and done it.

so i ask the wise ones.

what engine or car do i buy and build up to get my ultimate performance?

 

cheers

 

adam

[hcmini1989 16]

have a look at some of the project threads .allso depends on what sort of power your after .

 

lots of common conversions as you`ve said i .e gti6, xsara vts ,3.0v6

 

if youre going for high bhp go for a 2.0 8v turbo for not alot of money you can get 200bhp

 

might not sound alot by todays standards but trust me is f***n fast

[adam2oh5 0]

from the sri yes? im looking at one on autotrader every lunchtime and dunno if the turbo route is the right one?i mean its like £600 but is it easy to reach that mark? and drive shafts will last a couple of thou miles over the instant power from the turbo?

[dcc 855]

a good set of suspension and a tidy gearbox, you will be loving your car more if you got these than any engine conversion (w16 exempt )

 

£200-300 on some front coilovers and a decent set of springs... with decent rear torsion bars. a road going diff with a close ratio box would be good too, try and do a search as its been covered alot. think outside of the box for performance! lots of people rave about the ability of the 205 to out perform other cars, nothing more satisfying than watching a 200bhp honda get sideways and you disappear from him leaving him in your dust

[adam2oh5 0]

oh and thank your for the sugestions as anythink is a good one!

[dcc 855]

Adam, tom fenton is running huge power through his 1.6 xu, i am 99% sure he uses standard shafts with no problems. the turbo lumps seem to suffer badly from the manifold from what i can gather. the work needed to fit is alot, and as standard they are not *brilliant* engines.

[adam2oh5 0]

a good set of suspension and a tidy gearbox, you will be loving your car more if you got these than any engine conversion (w16 exempt )

 

£200-300 on some front coilovers and a decent set of springs... with decent rear torsion bars. a road going diff with a close ratio box would be good too, try and do a search as its been covered alot. think outside of the box for performance! lots of people rave about the ability of the 205 to out perform other cars, nothing more satisfying than watching a 200bhp honda get sideways and you disappear from him leaving him in your dust

 

hahaha i like your style matey. i alreay got the coilovers and as the spax rsx kit dunt slam it like the vw scene goes for it does stiff it up a fair bit.well no movment what so ever hahahahaha.and i run the be3 1.6 box.and have a spare be1 in the garage that wants be cumming into use.hahaha and im sorry but i alost went honda.ashamed i still look at them on autotrader and look at the 2.2 prelude h20 engine and ask myself would it be easyier? but its sumthink about the 205 i love thanks for the post keep the ideas coming

[adam2oh5 0]

Adam, tom fenton is running huge power through his 1.6 xu, i am 99% sure he uses standard shafts with no problems. the turbo lumps seem to suffer badly from the manifold from what i can gather. the work needed to fit is alot, and as standard they are not *brilliant* engines.

ahh yes this is why im hesitating towards that engine.im not a mega fan of turbos to be honest.a 1.6 xu? is there a spec you can get hold of or do i search to ask him what magic he has done? this engine im trying to build is definatly out there but i need it to suit me and my love for lumpy camshafts maybe? p.s you know the low compresion later 205's witht he low com pistons?is that what they used for that turbo engine?

[adam2oh5 0]

just like to say there is a man called baz on here with a 205 on 3 wheels as a pic hahaha, i think i spoke to once who seems to know alot about alot.maybe if he see's this he can put some light on what im after.and btw im hunting over or very close to the 200bhp and dont want to have to rebuld all the time so reliabilty is a thought.if anyones says get a motorbike engine in the back then i will just have to disapear and save for a few years and take a visit to zcars!

[chrisj21 2]

Hi Adam, How's things?

 

Glad to here the car's back on the road.

 

The first thing that jumps out at me is your age. Your going to struggle to insure anything modified or high powered and quotes aren't going to be reasonable until your 25+ as i've recently found out.

 

That aside the 2.0 turbo seems a good choice if your looking for 200bhp on a cheapish base. My route is the GTI6 and later down the line will come throttle bodies, ecu, cams etc.

 

But as already said suspension and brakes need to be upgraded also.

 

Chris

[adam2oh5 0]

Hi Adam, How's things?

 

Glad to here the car's back on the road.

 

The first thing that jumps out at me is your age. Your going to struggle to insure anything modified or high powered and quotes aren't going to be reasonable until your 25+ as i've recently found out.

 

That aside the 2.0 turbo seems a good choice if your looking for 200bhp on a cheapish base. My route is the GTI6 and later down the line will come throttle bodies, ecu, cams etc.

 

But as already said suspension and brakes need to be upgraded also.

 

Chris

 

hello again chris.yeah not to bad tahh. ah i wont need road insurance becuase it will never touch the road.its just a track car. is the 2.0 turbo an xu engine? and as you went the gti 6 route was it an easy fit? if i use a 1.1 205 as a base can i use the gti6 subframe or do i have to get a gti one? lots of questions hahaha.

 

cheers

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

As suggested earlier, please go and look through some of the project threads so you can see not only what's possible but how to do it.

 

You won't be getting answers in this thread to all of your questions here like which subframe. And saying this was a track only car early on would've helped.

 

I think that 200 turbo horses is different to 200 non-turbo horses, and the non-turbo route is preferred generally for track work.

 

There is nothing wrong with XU engines at all, and bare in mind that an Mi16 is an XU9 or XU10, a GTI6/Xsara VTS are XU10J4RS and Tom Fenton's 1.6 is a modified XU5. They are all very similar with many interchangeable parts. They are a great family of engines and some fabulous results have been achieved by members of this forum.

 

I agree that K20 type Honda engines technically are very advanced and fantastic starting points, but they, just like V6 conversions need quite a lot of specialist work, which I'm guessing is not in your budget, skills or timescale at the moment.

 

So in summary, I would agree totally that perhaps you should make sure your standard engine is healthy, and concentrate on improving both the handling and your skills as a track driver. This will get you round the track quicker than an extra 70bhp will that may cost nearly £2,000 and provide more fun. £500 of suspension and plenty of track time will deliver far more value for money and smiles.

 

And I would hazard a guess that Baz himself would agree with my last comment.

[dcc 855]

I think the car in baz' picture is his standard 1.6 miami, he swears by it being one of the most fun cars hes ever driven!

[hcmini1989 16]

what sort of money are you looking at spending might be worth a look on ebay as there is someone selling engine conversions on there and i think its miles a member from here

 

have you thought about doing your engine up i.e cams,carbs, maybe even an after market ecu

[adam2oh5 0]

what sort of money are you looking at spending might be worth a look on ebay as there is someone selling engine conversions on there and i think its miles a member from here

 

have you thought about doing your engine up i.e cams,carbs, maybe even an after market ecu

 

well i dont really have much of a budget sort of thing.because i work at trinity motors i get everythink at trade price wich is very nice.and i have a friend from roger clark motorsports whos very clever and has had alot of 205's!he helps me out and points me in the right direction with things.

 

the engine that i have already has a piper cam,but the cam that i chose says best performance wen std plenum chamber is used hence why i havnt bought some carbs through my mate, after market ecu is sumthink i havnt really looked at and is somethink i will have to pay a professional to setup? and will he be able to make it run faster or just run better?

 

apolagies for not telling you what i have done to my car and not really explaing what i want from this new build, like i said i dont want to seem like sum kid who thinks he can drive like a rally driver! i carnt i was just bought up on motorbikes and cars and wanting the best to my skills.

 

cheers

[All Praise The GTI 3]

i have a turbo technics conversion for sale. would bolt on your rebuilt engine nicely

 

sorry thats a shameless plug

[hcmini1989 16]

i have a turbo technics conversion for sale. would bolt on your rebuilt engine nicely

 

sorry thats a shameless plug

not a bad idea though

 

problem is mate the gti6 engines and mi16 seem to be very sought after and so fetch alot off money i.e £300-£500 thats for an mi not gti6 but id imagine there the same so thats why i would be looking into going down the turbo route .

 

as said id try ebay you can get the sri 406`s for peanuts well most of them .look for scrappers i.e rotten ones or head gasket failure .maybe try local scrappies see what you can find

 

but it does seem a shame to waste the rebuilt 1.9 engine off yours though why not turbo it as said above you might get a cheaper deal seeing as youve already got a decent motor .all you would probably need is decomp plate aswell or keep it at low pressure

 

i was in a similar situtaion to you mate i mean modifying trying to go faster on a budget so i went down the bike itb`s and megasquirt might want to have alook at doing this aswell

Edited January 20, 2010 by hcmini1989

[adam2oh5 0]

As suggested earlier, please go and look through some of the project threads so you can see not only what's possible but how to do it.

 

You won't be getting answers in this thread to all of your questions here like which subframe. And saying this was a track only car early on would've helped.

 

I think that 200 turbo horses is different to 200 non-turbo horses, and the non-turbo route is preferred generally for track work.

 

There is nothing wrong with XU engines at all, and bare in mind that an Mi16 is an XU9 or XU10, a GTI6/Xsara VTS are XU10J4RS and Tom Fenton's 1.6 is a modified XU5. They are all very similar with many interchangeable parts. They are a great family of engines and some fabulous results have been achieved by members of this forum.

 

I agree that K20 type Honda engines technically are very advanced and fantastic starting points, but they, just like V6 conversions need quite a lot of specialist work, which I'm guessing is not in your budget, skills or timescale at the moment.

 

So in summary, I would agree totally that perhaps you should make sure your standard engine is healthy, and concentrate on improving both the handling and your skills as a track driver. This will get you round the track quicker than an extra 70bhp will that may cost nearly £2,000 and provide more fun. £500 of suspension and plenty of track time will deliver far more value for money and smiles.

 

And I would hazard a guess that Baz himself would agree with my last comment.

 

ill go do the searches on the subframe questions

 

i totaly agree about the differences between the delivery of the power of turbo and non turbo.

 

ahh thats very helpful as i thought that obviosly the 1.6 gti and 1.9 gti are almost the same except afm,valve size,cam,pistons,rods,crank ect ect

but the other engines also run this sort of setup!

i think what i need to do really is probly do like what you have and actually buy different engines and rebuild so i can understand and see what parts are actually the same.spose im just trying to learn the easyier way instead of the better way.

 

yeah the honda tunning scene is expensive. but the thing i like about companies like mugan and spoon are you know that all there products are well tested and work thats why they are the price they are.its not so much skill as i got the help and always willing to learn or time scale as i live at home and dont plan on moving out or having kids for a while until i get all my dream cars!

 

well thanks for the advice as im now going to be booking alot of track days and start buying a few more engines so i build them up to the best i can.ooo what a dream though having about 4 different engines but all modded to diverent specs.

 

thanks again

 

adam

[adam2oh5 0]

i have a turbo technics conversion for sale. would bolt on your rebuilt engine nicely

 

sorry thats a shameless plug

 

hahaha cheers for the offer matey but my engine has a higher compression ratio and will end up killing the beast

 

was you happy with the power it produced and was it worth going turbo?

 

cheers

[adam2oh5 0]

not a bad idea though

 

problem is mate the gti6 engines and mi16 seem to be very sought after and so fetch alot off money i.e £300-£500 thats for an mi not gti6 but id imagine there the same so thats why i would be looking into going down the turbo route .

 

as said id try ebay you can get the sri 406`s for peanuts well most of them .look for scrappers i.e rotten ones or head gasket failure .maybe try local scrappies see what you can find

 

but it does seem a shame to waste the rebuilt 1.9 engine off yours though why not turbo it as said above you might get a cheaper deal seeing as youve already got a decent motor .all you would probably need is decomp plate aswell or keep it at low pressure

 

i was in a similar situtaion to you mate i mean modifying trying to go faster on a budget so i went down the bike itb`s and megasquirt might want to have alook at doing this aswell

 

hahaha trust me the car wont be going to waist

 

individual throttle bodies is an idea.i had bike carbs on a 1.9 that set on fire though and still cringe at the fact that i ended up throwing snow at it while on fire,whilse topless as my first attemp was to drown the flames with my top.i bet i looked a right twat in the freezing cold with no top throwing snow at my flaming motor hahahahaha,

 

i think im just going to buy a gti6 and rebuild that and put it in another 205.and keep going through all the engines and end up with a few 205s that are completely different to drive and run different bhp.

 

hahahah yet again going to be another year where i convince myself i dont need clothes or that night out up town more than i need to polish the underside of caror buy somethink engine related i know im not the only one out there!

 

cheers again matey youve been great help

[Baz 421]

I think you maybe need to take a step back and have a re-think about what it actually is and how you're asking it, at the moment it's very unclear for a number of reasons.

 

Perhaps you should just do as a few people have suggested and retain a standard 8v, maybe spending a few quid on brakes and suspension, then develop that further as you get used to it. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by that alone!

 

ahh thats very helpful as i thought that obviosly the 1.6 gti and 1.9 gti are almost the same except afm,valve size,cam,pistons,rods,crank ect ect

 

Nope, the valve and piston size's are the same too, and you can run either engine on either AFM,ECU,Dizzy,Injectors etc, as long as they're all matched to each other.

[adam2oh5 0]

I think you maybe need to take a step back and have a re-think about what it actually is and how you're asking it, at the moment it's very unclear for a number of reasons.

 

Perhaps you should just do as a few people have suggested and retain a standard 8v, maybe spending a few quid on brakes and suspension, then develop that further as you get used to it. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by that alone!

 

 

 

Nope, the valve and piston size's are the same too, and you can run either engine on either AFM,ECU,Dizzy,Injectors etc, as long as they're all matched to each other.

 

oh right yeah i know the bore is 83mm on either engines,your telling me wen i have just rebuilt a 1.9 out of a 1.6 engine,but surly runing a 1.9 engine on 1.6 ecu dizzy injectors and afm would make it not perform the same. else why would the company have botherd?

i didnt come here to argue or people try to make me look a T***.i am taking in what people are saying.i have already uprated to gti6 brakes and have spax coilovers.

 

the car i have built is for the track and a learning curve.

im on about a different project. a different engine a different 205 wich i have said

 

oh and the vaulve sizes are different for 1.6 heads and 1.9 heads.i was pointed towards a professionals who told me that and has been building them for years.i also have seen and mesured the valves as my car was a 1.6 with a 1.6 head and i bought a 1.9 head from the man over the road and it is definalty a 1.9 head.i didnt say it wouldnt run with 1.6 head its just not got bigger valves as a 1.9

[Paul_13 212 1 Cars]

Early 1.6 heads have bigger valves and the 1.9 and 1.6 valves are deffinately the same.

 

Sure the head had standard valves?

[Baz 421]

VERY early 1.6's had smaller valves, (I think that's what Paul means too) like 1984 variants, otherwise both 1.6 and 1.9 from at least '86 onwards had the same size valves. (Obviously later when they actually started making 1.9 GTi's!) So your 'professionals' might be well clued up, but i'm afraid they doesn't know that much about XU heads clearly.

 

Yes, running a 1.9 on 1.6 management may not be the optimum or most ideal, but i can tell you first hand it works, and very well. There's a 1.9 engine in my workshop that at least 3 members on here have driven in anger whilst running on 1.6 management and wouldn't tell you otherwise.

 

I'm not here to make you look a twat, i don't need to do that, i'm here to hopefully help and advise like you've asked! I'm merely saying think out what you're asking before you ask, considering your replies are all over the place so far!

Edited January 20, 2010 by Baz

[danpug 1]

If you want to see what the 2.0 turbos are like on track check out rapidcossies videos on youtube.