Bleed Brakes With G/box Oil

[treesimon 0]

Ive decided to bleed the brakes today on my 1.9

 

So started to bleed the rears topped up the m/c

When back around the rear bleed again.

Then to the front, bleed, bleed. Next "that looks a bit thick and green"!

 

s*it!

 

looked abit closer at the container and released ive just pour gearbox oil into the system.

 

When to the back to rear and bleed almost all of the fulid out of one half on the m/c.

Then topped up with brake fulid then bleed it again untill it started coming through clear.

 

Basically pumped through another litre of brake fulid, took abit of effort to get it through the compensator thou.

 

Took it for a drive. looked at the fulid in the M/C. Its still ever so slightly green.

 

Is there anything bad that could happen? Gearbox oil shouldnt damage any of the seal as brake fulid is more corrosive. Also its thicker but the amount ive got in there it Shouldnt be a problem?

 

2nd Question is

 

A while ago i had to jam on the brakes and found the car didnt stop in a straight line, it pulled to the right (O/S)

Thats why i decided to bleed the brakes. I found that the rear left N/S brake line wasnt letting through as much fuild as the rear right.

 

Now does this mean that the O/s compensator is knackered for letting out to much fulid forcing the O/s rear brake on harder making in pull to the right?

 

Or is the n/s compensator not letting throught enough?

 

 

Any thoughts?

[Tom Fenton 1,540]

I wouldn't risk it personally, do you know for a fact that gearbox oil won't eat the master cylinder seals over time? As I don't, so for the relatively low cost and peace of mind I'd change the master cyl.

[treesimon 0]

I wouldn't risk it personally, do you know for a fact that gearbox oil won't eat the master cylinder seals over time? As I don't, so for the relatively low cost and peace of mind I'd change the master cyl.

 

 

True, how easy is it to change? I take it, its just a case of draining out the fuild. Undo the unions and then the two bolts and then it pulls off? Do i have to fit new unions? Olives?

[davev 1]

i think tom is being abit over cautious there.

 

though if it was mine id make sure all traces of gearbox oil is out the system. if you have to, you can easily remove the reservoir to really clean it out. and if you really want, im sure you can get new reservoir seals for cheap.

[treesimon 0]

im at abit nervous when it comes to playing with the brakes?

Ive done the head gasket so not completely useless.

 

If i remove the reservoir to clean how do i go about bleed the system as ive heard that sometime it requires removing the pipes off of the m/c to bleed the M/c as you can get a airlock. Then bleed the lines.

 

If i do change the complete m/c what kind of job is it?

[davev 1]

on the 205 ive personally had no problems with bleeding the system and having airlocks.

 

just do things logically. with either the master clyinder off or just reservoir you will be removing most fluid anyway. and with either one you will have to remove the reservoir anyway. so id give it a clean whilst its off.

 

once you have cleaned and changed what you want just totally fill it with brake fluid and starting at the back(nearside/passenger side rear) i usually get someone to jump in and i bleed it the old skool way. i.e a piece of hose(screen wash hose works good) on the bleed nipple and the other end in clean bottle just submerged in brake fluid. and let them pump the air out.

 

as long as you dont let the fluid run out and you bleed it from all calipers(maybe more than once) you should get all the air out.

[Tom Fenton 1,540]

In my opinion you cannot be "over cautious" when it comes to the braking system. It needs to be 100% and no ifs or buts.

 

The master cylinder is really quite easy to change. Undo the 4 off unions where the solid pipes attach to the master cylinder. Undo 2 nuts where it attaches to the servo. Remove it from the car and drain the fluid out. Carefully prise the reservoir from the master cylinder and then fit it to the new master cylinder with the new seals etc supplied. Refit the master to the servo with the 2 nuts to secure it. Then refit the solid pipes (the unions can be re-used, no new olives etc required). Then bleed the system, the master cylinders on 205's don't airlock in my experience so you won't have to worry about that.

 

If you can do the head gasket then I'd say you'll be pretty comfortable changing this as well.

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Id go with tom, replace the master cylinder for 20 shiny gold coins.

 

10 minute job to change over the MC, then you just got to bleed the system.

[treesimon 0]

Thats decided i'll replace the master cylinder.

 

Just looked on gsf online catalogue. I know i need a 20.6mm m/c and make sure its the bendix type rather than a pattern pattern.

 

But gsf also show a 20.6mm with something about 19mm show as one part.

 

Does anyone know what the 19mm is all about?

[hengti 2]

that's may be the 1.6 m/c (it's smaller, anyway). the 1.9 is 20.6, and has four outlets

 

renewing the m/c seems sensible (esp. if it's aged). no idea what gear oil might do to the seals, but it's one of those things that's not worth chancing for the money/hassle of renewing it

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

that's may be the 1.6 m/c (it's smaller, anyway).

The 1.6 GTI does not have a smaller master cylinder than the 1.9.

 

They both have a 20.6mm one, the only difference is the 1.6 m/c has three outlets instead of four.

 

Not sure what the gsf catalogue / website means though but I tjhink its been mentioned on here before just I can't remember the answer.

 

Graham.

[lagonda 42]

I did read somewhere that you could flush out a hydraulic system with meths, blowing the system through with an airline afterwards, then bleed through a fair quantity of brake fluid to make sure all the meths is out.

 

Regarding the master cylinder, the new one doesn't include the reservoir, which swaps over....so make sure that is thoroughly cleaned out before doing so.

 

Years ago, when I didn't have two farthings to rub together (now I've got ha'pennies), I used to run Fiat 500s...don't laugh till you've tried driving one.

 

Anyway, I had a friend's wedding reception to go to in the evening, & decided to do some work on the brakes. In those days, I used to have jam jars of used brake fluid in the garage, so I grabbed one of those, bled the brakes...fine. Little bit more for luck...pedal on floor. Bleed again, & again, & again...pedal goes down to floor. What's going on? Look at jam jar again....I'd picked the only one with used PAINTBRUSH CLEANER in it!

 

Times getting on now, so being the responsible fellow that I am....I go to the wedding reception anyway. This is a 20 mile drive up to London from Worcester Park, not a round the corner job. Kept forgetting no footbrake, so much last minute yanking of hand brake & double-declutching into low gear (last car without syncromesh, remember!). Remarkably I get to the reception without actually running into anything. To my great amazement, Tracey has actually listened to my request for real cider (all I drink). So I have a few pints (remember this is 6 to 8% alcohol) & decide I really ought to stop & go home....then I spot another I haven't tried! So I had a pint of that, then left. Apart from the cider, I can remember Dexy's Midnight Runners playing Come on Eileen most of the time. Couldn't recall ANY of the drive home whatsoever. Strangely there was no damage to the 500, so I obviously got back OK....but how is a total mystery!

 

Strangely I now only put brand new brake fluid in!

 

Should add that, if you're contemplating changing the master cylinder, then logically you need to change all the brake hoses & seals in calipers, wheel cylinders, as they will have been affected just as much...IF they have been affected. I suspect any damage would have occurred almost immediately, so if you've bled fresh fluid through & everything IS 100%, I wouldn't worry too much...but I would syphon out the m/c reservoir, as the wells in therecould retain oil still, then refill it with fresh fluid...no need to bleed the system for that, of course. Incidentally, GSF's master cylinders are Bendix, make sure it comes in it's box as first one I was offered wasn't, & had parts missing!

[davev 1]

ill agree with legonda somewere in his reminisence(sp) that if you are worried about the master cylinder seals then theres a lot more seals in the brake system that would have been exposed to the gear box oil.

 

to be honest id be more concerned about his compensators, as ones failing. not sure which one as i tried and failed curing the same problem on mine.

 

one last thing, and im not tring to cause unrest here. but earlier in the year i couldnt find a master cylinder for under £50 and that was a gsf home brew rebuild jobbie. i ended out getting one from pug at around 69+vat.

 

p.s. assuming treesimon has had one or two brake pipes changed(like most) then watch out when you undo the unions with the copper pipes. as they like to hold together and twist the pipe. meaning you will have to change these also.

[treesimon 0]

This seems to be growing arms and legs now!

 

The pipes seem to be steel? Connected to the m/c rather than copper. Could this be the originals because not much corrosion takes place under the bonnet? It is 19 year old?

 

Are the steel pipes less likely to twist when undoing?

 

Looks like I could really do with replacing the whole system, but to be honest where the system in cut in half. I think that the m/c and the n/s rear caliper pipes and hoses would have taken the most of the gearbox oil.

 

I'll have to start somewhere and work along the line replacing bits, makes sense to replace the m/c first!

[treesimon 0]

Just went to GSF to get a new master cylinder. They only have pattern ones on the self but could order a bendix one in for tomorrow morning.

 

Gonna crack off the unions today to see if the pipes start twisting causing more work.

[davev 1]

teh original steel pipes dont tend to twist. just the replacement copper ones.

 

its usuall easy to tell. as the copper ones are well copper and the steel ones are usually covered in a green plastic coating that ends just before the nut.

[treesimon 0]

Definetly steel pipes!

I've removed the m/c now and clean the reservoir up now.

 

I thought while it was off I check theeasurement of the servo rod.

 

Should be 22.2-22.4 from the rounded end on the adjuster nut to the face of the servo.

 

It seems a right pain to get am accurate measurement as the rod floats freely, alsothe vernier I hve doesn't sit on the face while touching the rod!

 

Is there a better way of measuring it?

 

Also will there be a gasket supplied with the new/c to go between it and the servo?

[treesimon 0]

I've now fitted the new m/c. It's now got the right colour fulid in it.

 

The way I managed to get a Reading of the push rod measurement was to put a 6" steel rule over the hole for the m/c which it's thicknesss measured 0.5mm. Then I took a measurement holding the the base of the vernier against the rule to the rod.

I was now looking for a measurement of 22.07 - 22.09mm

 

It was very easy to change, and all the pipes bleed fine.

 

I decided to leave all of the unions out of the m/c lose until I had fulid being pushed out the gaps just to make certain I wouldn't get a airlock.

 

 

I was now interested if anyone could recommend where to get a quality set of 1.9 braided hose from to replace my STD flexis. I see that there are set that are on eBay, braided hoses with translucent pvc coating over and stainless steel fitting. Sound good but I'd prefer to go by a recommendation.

[welshpug 1,655]

Miles on here does very good ones, best to call or PM as he does offer Forum discount when he can, not far from you either, about 20 miles I think.

 

here's his Ebay shop

 

http://stores.shop.ebay.co.uk/PugRacing-Ge...634Q2ec0Q2em322

 

(nothing listed for your application, so best to get in touch)

[treesimon 0]

Cheers will get in touch with miles.

[JayCC 0]

Think miles has made a pricing error here http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Peugeot-205-GTi-205-...=item51884e68ae

 

lol

[welshpug 1,655]

I think that is intentional, if you read on you'll find

 

Stock has run out, More in Mid to Late December

 

[JayCC 0]

oops my bad