Standard 1.6 Starter Motor Or Diesel Replacement ?

[shed_racing 0]

Hi All - 'tis the season to be jolly, an' all that . . more like the season to be tinkerigng in sub-zero temperatures. Why does it always go wrong when it's so bloomin' cold ?

 

Went out to start the little puppy today, and only got a single click from the solenoid . . . nothing else. Started ok yesterday, although the last few times has been a noise like something overrrunning momentarily after it's started. (sounds like an old austin when they used to start - like an exaggerated cough/wheeze, if anyone is old enough to remember them !) swapped batteries, and the new one's reading over 13v (just off charge) so it's not that. turned on the lights and tried again, and a faltering in brightness on a turn of the ignition, so I'm leaning towards a replacement starter.

 

So, two questions, please:

 

1. is it possible to remove the starter without removing the inlet manifold (not that I don't trust Mr. Haynes)

2. Are the gsf standard starters ok, or is it better to hunt down a diesel one on the 'bay ?

 

I'd be looking for a straight fit in this weather, with no fabrication / modifying necessary . . .

 

Car is an '89 1.6 with everything standard.

 

Many thanks, and if anyone want's me, I'll be in the garage, burning things to try and defrost my digits.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

Yes you can change the starter motor without removing the inlet manifold. Do a search it has been discussed many times... I havent done it for a long time, so cant tell you exactly how.

 

I have however been through alot of starter motors, many because they were used ones.... I would suggest buying a new starter!

 

mad.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Use a late model small bodied one say from a GTi6, But beware as allot of recon units can be any old thing

[shed_racing 0]

Thanks guys - I did try the search for starter motors, (as always - look before asking) to no avail, even under advanced search (hence the question !) although I came across a posting that showed me a whole download of interesting dealer-type drawings and part numbers, so was not all lost . . . so, I now know that I need a 0.95kw, clockwise rotation unit with nine teeth, (also used on for BX15, 16 19, & Pug 305 309 and 405 )

 

Miles: - Thanks; I'll see if I can get a GTi6 unit. Kinda need it tomorrow or weds, so would you recommend a GSF one ? or (as it's an emergency) Halfrauds ?! (I know - rinse my mouth out)

 

Thanks very much for your help.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

No, GSF are poor on starter's, Try a local factors which is the best bet, Any 406 with a XU engine will do too

[shed_racing 0]

(as always - look before asking)

 

Doh - try looking older than this year . . . loads of posts from 2006, including "blue wire to brown multiplug" syndrome

 

Just been out in the freezing fog (as a pennance for not looking in past years fora - that was for you, madspikes) and found blue lead is exposed outside of the plug. Coupled with the fact that the inside of the plug is that nice shade of verdigris that interior designers and garden make-over people love, I gues I'll start with that.

 

Thanks gents.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

I didnt mean to get at you... I just remember reading about it when I was looking into starter motors.

 

I bought a re-con one, and it was pap... Currently running a GTi6 one.... which is ok touch wood.

 

The brown multi plug thing, normally causes the solenoid not to work at all. The other thing to check is the +ve supply from the battery.

 

When I was looking, there were a few different valeo types... 206 ones are different and dont fit, they look the same but the face that mounts to the gearbox is different. The other thing to look for is the solenoid position, some have on the top and some have it on the bottom. I believe the GTi standard ones have the solenoid on the top. If my memory servers me right most of the ZX and 306 ones have it in the lower position. I think both will fit, but not 100% on this.

 

 

Dont worry, I was out changing CV boots on the pug last week! I did ask myself, what the F**k am I doing, it was freezing!

 

 

Mad.

Edited December 28, 2009 by madspikes

[pug_ham 245 3 Cars]

So, two questions, please:

 

1. is it possible to remove the starter without removing the inlet manifold (not that I don't trust Mr. Haynes)

2. Are the gsf standard starters ok, or is it better to hunt down a diesel one on the 'bay ?

1. Yes it is possible but if you have an old original big starter its awkward but still possible, even with the starter end bracket still fitted. Just removing the throttle body from the manifold makes enough space.

 

2. Best way with gsf is to check what your getting before you pay. I told someone to get a 306 TD starter & it was bigger than the old big 205 starter i removed. Luckily I got a small satrter from a 406 in my local breakers for £15 which was ideal.

 

Graham.

[shed_racing 0]

Madspikes - no worries ! I didn't take it like that.

 

At least I was standing up, and not lying down trying to do the CV Boots - you have my sympathy there. (Just meant that my back got soaked & I couldn't feel my fingers - remind me again why we do this ??!!)

 

I managed to replace the brown multiplug and it started on the button. about three times on the bounce (just checking) I waved a victory salute at the car and shouted "I win" and went merrily out for a celebratory pint. Needless to say, it started after I fuelled it up on the way; it started again at the first pub, and then, at the last venue of the evening, just when it was proper hooning it down with rain, it refused: solenoid click, click, click . . . at that point, when I was stuck in Hitchin after closing time without a coat in the peeing rain waiting for greenflag, I could have sworn it said "no you bloody didn't - I win"

 

Sooooo . . . . managed to bump it in the end and ran it home, replaced the lead from the solenoid back to where the multiplug once lived and the solenoid is now clicking with proper force.

 

Looks like it's the starter after all !!

 

 

Now currently trying to hunt down a compatible unit with a smaller body, like the gti6 one Miles suggested. Trying to cross-reference all of the info I can to get a part number before shopping.

 

Wrestling with the idea of fitting a second hand unit, working on the basis that I'm likely to have to do it again sometime in the near future, or risking a (ahem) "Re-manufactured" unit.

 

Decisions . . . .

 

Thanks again gents - once again, appreciate your advice and experience.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

The numbers make no differance, It's the chain of Recon units as say you will return a big bodied one for your small one so it's goes on from there,

Only the S16 used the solenoid on the side to clear the inlet manifold, The GTi6 starter have 2 ratings as well, 1.4Kw is the larger one and the smaller one I think is around .9Kw

[shed_racing 0]

The numbers make no differance, It's the chain of Recon units as say you will return a big bodied one for your small one so it's goes on from there,

Only the S16 used the solenoid on the side to clear the inlet manifold, The GTi6 starter have 2 ratings as well, 1.4Kw is the larger one and the smaller one I think is around .9Kw

 

 

Thanks Miles - found a lucas part number for a GTi6, so will try and hunt one down . . . Eurocarparts want around £90, so I'm on an internet mission to find one cheaper than that. Loads of recon ones on the 'bay, ranging from a 6 month warranty (!) to two years.

 

Local to me (-ish) is a French car breakers, so I may try them tomorrow for a suitable 2nd hand unit; managed to ascertain that the GTi6 unit will fit/was fitted all manner of cars thanks to your pointer, including Fiat and Citroen as well as Puegeot. (Lucas #FRS611; 1.1kW)

 

Just can't bring myself to part with best part of a hundred quid on what is already an increasingly expensive "fun" car . . . . my ears are still bruised from two drive shafts, a pair of front wheel bearings, top mount bearings/doughnuts, set of OEM leads, dizzy cap & rotor and rocker gasket ("Thought that you said that this was a good example")

 

As if that's not bad enough, when it did choose to run the other day, the rad started steaming a bit from mid-core, so I'm hoping that's not next on the list. Keep telling myself that it was cold, so it was just that it was warming the local air . . . . " Hello - is that nissens . . ."

 

Cheers.

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

Been there with the old starter motor issues! Its the gutting click, click click..... I got in the habit of parking in spaces where it was easy to bump the car.

 

Hope you get it sorted soon.

 

 

mad.

[peakrevs 0]

Thanks guys - I did try the search for starter motors, (as always - look before asking) to no avail, even under advanced search (hence the question !) although I came across a posting that showed me a whole download of interesting dealer-type drawings and part numbers, so was not all lost . . . so, I now know that I need a 0.95kw, clockwise rotation unit with nine teeth, (also used on for BX15, 16 19, & Pug 305 309 and 405 )

 

Miles: - Thanks; I'll see if I can get a GTi6 unit. Kinda need it tomorrow or weds, so would you recommend a GSF one ? or (as it's an emergency) Halfrauds ?! (I know - rinse my mouth out)

 

Thanks very much for your help.

 

When we lived in Bedfordshire, I used Britesparks in Sandy for reconditioned, exchange alternators and starter motors. I found them very good to deal with and pricewise excellent. We've been in Devon now for 7 years so I've had no recent contact but no reason to think that their service will be any different. Link: http://automotive.kellysearch.co.uk/profil...9+1dz/350592846

 

Hope this helps

 

John

[shed_racing 0]

When we lived in Bedfordshire, I used Britesparks in Sandy for reconditioned, exchange alternators and starter motors. I found them very good to deal with and pricewise excellent. We've been in Devon now for 7 years so I've had no recent contact but no reason to think that their service will be any different. Link: http://automotive.kellysearch.co.uk/profil...9+1dz/350592846

 

Hope this helps

 

John

 

 

Thanks very much John - managed to get the old (large) one out yesterday, after removing first the throttle body, then the inlet manifold, then most of the skin on the back of my hand on one of those little clips that hold the thin rad feed pipe to the bodywork ! Curse ? I got to Q in my A-Z of expletives before drawing breath.

 

Managed to pick a smaller body one from the 'bay, so I'll try that first, and if it's knackered, I'll try your man at Sandy - Now you mention it, a mate of mine suggested that when I had trouble with an old Shogun a few years ago. Sure they're still there, too, and very close ! Nice one.

 

There used to be an electrical genius in Stevenage called Autolex, and they'd recondition just about anything, but I think the fella there retired as the number listed is unobtainable now. Most sad, as he was a proper gent, and didn't sell you anything you didn't need.

 

Thanks for the Breitesparks reminder (and especially the link - most thoughtful)

 

(I'd sooner be in Devon than Beds, TBH, but she won't even THINK about moving down there.)

[peakrevs 0]

Thanks very much John - managed to get the old (large) one out yesterday, after removing first the throttle body, then the inlet manifold, then most of the skin on the back of my hand on one of those little clips that hold the thin rad feed pipe to the bodywork ! Curse ? I got to Q in my A-Z of expletives before drawing breath.

 

Managed to pick a smaller body one from the 'bay, so I'll try that first, and if it's knackered, I'll try your man at Sandy - Now you mention it, a mate of mine suggested that when I had trouble with an old Shogun a few years ago. Sure they're still there, too, and very close ! Nice one.

 

There used to be an electrical genius in Stevenage called Autolex, and they'd recondition just about anything, but I think the fella there retired as the number listed is unobtainable now. Most sad, as he was a proper gent, and didn't sell you anything you didn't need.

 

Thanks for the Breitesparks reminder (and especially the link - most thoughtful)

 

(I'd sooner be in Devon than Beds, TBH, but she won't even THINK about moving down there.)

 

Moving down here was the best thing we ever did, do hope you win your lady over. It really is a lovely place to live and I've even found a Britesparks equivalent in Exeter.

[shed_racing 0]

John; If I could get a job, I'd try my damnest to get her to go ! (or even go without her

 

Think I may have a problem there, though - I lived down there (with another woman) for about 4 years before I met her, hiring out mountain bikes & surfboards and then lifeguarding so that area, above all others, is on the banned list.

 

Sad, really, as I loved it (lived just outside Barnstaple, then over the other side in Braunton)

 

Hope it's not too snowy / cold down there !

[harley 0]

Mine seems to get this problem sometimes but normally only when it's hot. turn the key and just get a click but if i persist and keep trying the starter always kicks in after a few attempts. I'm guessing i've got a dodgy connection somewhere but this cold weather isn't exactly enticing me to get the tools out!

[dcc 855]

i used to keep a ratchet extension for this exact issue until i replaced my old starter!

 

just whack the solenoid until she wants to work! good times!

[welshpug 1,666]

far more effective is to bung it across the terminals Dan