[engine_work] 1.9 8v Engine & Front End Refresh

[Bogsye 22]

Second only to another "Wot's it wurf" thread, here's my engine rebuild. It'll probably be a slow process, and cost three times as much as I was hoping. With a bit of luck I'll be refreshing the gearbox and front suspension, and replacing the front panel.

 

Took this photo when I got the car, and have had the wheels refurbished since. A rebuilt pair of front seats were fitted recently too, so it's not the worst example out there.

 

 

Things were going pretty well, car was running fine, and behaving itself. Mindful of weak synchro on 4th and pretty poor drive shafts I knew that a bit of work was needed after winter. Springtime was my plan. The car had other ideas and started to burn oil pretty badly. It was actually embarassing when sitting idling at traffic lights.

 

A quick compression test yielded figures of:

 

Dry: 9/9/12/12.5 bar

Wet: 11/10.5/12.5/13 bar

 

The previous owner had mentioned that the head had allegedy been rebuilt by the last owner, but there was no paperwork to prove. The results seemed more like the piston rings dying off on cylinders 3 & 4, so it was time to remove the engine and see what was going on. Having done the clutch recently on the driveway, I was in no mood to wriggle around on the driveway, so hiring an engine crane was order of the day. For £34 it was well worth it!!

 

The engine is a D6B, in a late 1991 (K), so it's not exactly original. The casting marks all suggest it isn't that much older than the car, and obvioulsy the mileage is unknown. The speedo shows 150,000, but who knows what it may have done?

 

Anyway, too many words, here's the lump extracted from the car:

 

 

 

And the unsightly engine bay in need of a tidy!

 

 

 

 

Today I got round to removing the head (note to self - the spacer is on stud at exhaust side at cam pulley!) to see what condition the liners were in. I was pleasantly surprised! No lip at all, so a quick hone should be sufficient. The headgasket was very much near the end of it's life and to be honest didn't look like it had been disturbed in a long time - not sure that the head has been refreshed ever.

The camshaft also looks to be in very fine fettle. Certainly better than any previous engines that I've torn down.

 

So, on with the reading to gather as much information as possible. So far the Puma Racing & Guy Croft sites have yielded good information and tips, as well as the amazing wealth of infomation here. And yes, I looked at the piston crowns and thought the pistons were in the wrong way round, until I searched the forum this afternoon!!

 

I'm thinking a mildly tuned engine is the way forward. I want to keep it as my everyday driver, so not like my AH-Sprite from student days which was a first (probably poor) attempt at a fast road engine. I did at least read the Vizard book cover to cover. My student budget didn't stretch to a roller release bearing, hence it tended to eat carbon release bearings due to the nature of the engine!!

 

Onwards and upwards - Hopefully strip the bottom end on Tuesday and see what that yields!!

 

Brian

[welshpug 1,666]

K is 92/3 , and no reason why it wouldn't have been D6B from the factory

 

worth mentioning I think, is that although the liners may not have a lip, you still need to check the actual size of them.

[Bogsye 22]

K is 92/3 , and no reason why it wouldn't have been D6B from the factory

 

worth mentioning I think, is that although the liners may not have a lip, you still need to check the actual size of them.

 

Good point - 92/92. Brain not switched on.

 

My car has (cough, had) a cat & runs Motronic, so it's the later lower power spec that would have been in there originally. Good point on the liners - I'll get them measured, and check for ovalling etc... Used to have a bore gauge at work but it's long since gone. Got a friendly machine shop, so I'll try them.

Edited December 18, 2009 by Bogsye

[welshpug 1,666]

ahh I see, should run quite well then on Motronic

[Anteas 0]

i thought the later ones were on a dkz engine code cats were optionial earlier than the 92 deadline

[Bogsye 22]

Mine definitely has had an earlier engine fitted at some stage, in place of the original cat equiped engine. I've changed the exhaust over to non-cat, but obvioulsy retained the oxygen sensor.

 

I've just stripped the bottom end today, and it's not bad, but the shells for both the big ends and mains are absolutely knackered. Glad I chose to rebuild it now!! The journals look in fair condition.

 

Will post some photos when I get a chance later.

 

Brian

[Bogsye 22]

Okay, some photos of the components.

 

Cylinders 1 & 2 were my main trouble - low compresion, and judging by the silt & scale around number 1, I'd guess it wouldn't have been cooling as well as the others. Seals are the o-ring type, and the landings look to be in decent condition.

 

 

The big ends, mains & thrust washers have all seen better days. Suprisingly the crank looks decent enough. There's no scoring, just discolouration. I'll have to get a mic to check diameters & ovality.

 

Shells - I seem to have grooved main shells in the crankcase & plain on the caps. Some bearings with the white metal are quite badly scored, and some have lost all their white metal. Glad I wasn't in the habit of "gunning" it everywhere. Suspect it would not have been too long before I threw a rod.

 

 

Crankshaft - seems to be discolouration, but will have to get it measures to see what's happening.

 

 

Oily bits

 

The small ends seem pretty happy, so I'll leave them alone! Looking at the oil pump I was amazed to see it was a friction drive. I recall Pinto engines that had a hex bar that used to wear out or drop off when the distributor was out, but this thing looks quite entertaining!

 

Built up my engine stand too, and got into the laborious task of scrubbing parts. On the engine stand I decided to go for a Clarke but went for the 750 model seeing as I'm aiming to work up to larger engine's in the future and the safety margin seems worthwhile. The 205 engine will look a bit small on the end of this thing!!

 

Guess I'll be cleaning parts until January when engine shops open up!

 

Brian

[Alastairh 47]

Making good progress mate!

 

Just one thing, your drivers drive shaft, take extreme care when putting that back together, as the needle bearings are likely to fall out, in future slacken the 2 11mm nuts so the hockey stick bolts are free, and pull the whole shaft out of the engine mount, and saves damage / loss off needles.

 

Al

[Bogsye 22]

Cheers Al

The intermediate bearing was totally siezed into the housing - hockey stick bolts were free enough. Total pain, because just as you say I've got needle rollers missing. The bearing mounting being pinned to the engine block added to the difficulty.

 

It was a growling shaft anyway, so I'll have to pick up a replacement one. It was also pretty tight into the diff, which might be worrying. Box needs a rebuild, and I'm not sure whether to do this myself or despatch it to someone like Miles to look after. I did the gearbox on my Sprite and vowed never again. However, without the same buget as Avatar........

 

Progress has been reasonably quick (so far) - holiday time to burn and the wife at work!!

Only two casualties so far - the drive shaft above & and a sheared bolt on the cam housing that'll need an easy-out to sort.

 

Turkey gravy and parsnip soup production this morning, so that's my progress for today scuppered!

 

Brian

[Bogsye 22]

Progress has been a bit slow. Christmas, New Year, festive drinking, decorating, ......

 

Anyway, I gave the block an initial thorough clean and just have to remove the various plugs to properly clean internal oilways. I took out the core plug for the cooling system expecting it to be a bit rusty, but it was surprisingly unblemished - apart from the hole in it from taking it out. Worth changing anyway I suppose.

 

I got my mits on a micrometer to check the crank journals, but came to the conclusion that my skills on this are not quite sufficient yet, so I've identified what I believe is a good machine shop to inspect the crank and re-grind it if necessary. Better off to get it right now. So, I'll get the crank done, liners checked and honed and the flywheel face re-ground. The machine shop will take the block too and check the crank in situ. Once that's done, I'll clean the whole lot all over again.

 

In the meantime I've got plenty of small components to keep me busy. Suspect that the mounting costs will blow away the things I wanted for improvements to the performance, but I suspect once the engine and front suspension are re-freshed, it'll be significantly better driving than it has been for a long time. Just getting rid on the chatter of the top mounts would be a step in the right direction.

 

Desparate to get this thing all back together!!!

 

Onwards and upwards!

 

Brian

[Bogsye 22]

Minor update!

 

Put the crank, block, liners and flywheel to the engineering company for inspection, and it's good news. The liners just needed a hone which they've done, and the crank doesn't need a re-grind, just a polish. They're also re-facing the flywheel for me too, as sods law says if I don't it'll all go tits up once re-assembled. So, all in all, a pretty good result.

 

Still cleaning oily bits. Managed to break the oil filler body trying to carefully dismantle it to unclog the mesh. It was utterly blocked and useless.

 

Dismantled, cleaned and inspected the oil pump. Was pretty horified at the debris in the strainer. i nearly didn't bother to prise this apart, but I'm glad I did. Looks like lots of wire from the filler body! It doubly assures me that obtaining a fresh oil filler body is a good idea, as I'd be gutted if my 'new' engine got wrecked due to this.

 

Just need some loctite for the oil pump ellen plugs and it'll be finished.

 

Onwards!!!

 

Just need to add some photos - otherwise this'll be a bit of boring thread! Hopefully have my bits back from the engineering place next week.

 

Brian

[grantpug 2]

Bogsey,

I am about to start restoring my 1.9 gti and am local to you. i would be interested in the name of the place that you took your engine components to? Also, what sort of price did you pay?

Thanks

Grant

[Bogsye 22]

Hi Grant,

I took the parts to West of Scotland Engineering. I considered Pistons & Components in Govan but WOSE were a bit cheaper, plus I got a recommendation of them from a friend who has had a good bit of private engine work done there.

 

I'll get you the prices once I've got the final invoice next week. The components should be AE and gaskets Payen.

 

Cheers,

 

Brian

[grantpug 2]

Thanks for that Brian,

Will give them a shout when i am at that stage.

Grant

[Bogsye 22]

It's been a while - Finally managed to make some decent progress.

 

Tried to home plate the fasteners for the engine, but in reality it's not worth the bother. In the end I got it done for £30 odd, which was pretty stress free.

 

Rewind a bit, and I'd noted that the strainer was quite full of debris. Below is what I found when I prised of the tin cover!

 

 

The metal parts seemed to be wire from the oil filler body and the rest was silicone sealant which must have been from previous enthusiastic application!

 

I decided to try and clean out the filler body as it was obvioulsy quite clogged up. This proved difficult and in light of the above, I decided a repacement was better. At the end of the day more fall out from this could potentially scrap my engine.

 

I split the body open to see what the mesh was like - a horror really.

 

 

Doesn't look like it's been doing much breathing for a while!

 

 

The little strainer that goes in the cylinder head and protects the cam spraybar also had a good bit of junk in it - filter wire too. Tried to clean it, but it basically disintegrated.

 

 

Here's where it's now - Managed to complete the bottom end and today put the head back on - at last. Torqued down per Puma Racing's advice.

 

 

 

 

Need to refer to some photos on the forum to figure out how the lifting lugs attach and also figure out the breather pipes.

 

At least it seems to be progressing again. Just need to decide if I'm going to rebuild the gearbox myself.

 

Brian

[timstemi16 0]

looks like youve had a few bits re-plated, is this expensive because i find it makes things look alot nicer

thanks

[Bogsye 22]

It was about £30 plus postage from Avon Electroplating. Turnaround was abnout a week. I just stripped all the external fasteners off and sent them by parcelforce. If you've got a quidco account it's possible to get a useful discount on the postage.

 

I'll dig out a photo of what I got plated - sure I've got one somewhere.

 

Brian.

[Bogsye 22]

Here we are:

 

 

It was quite difficult to find anyone interested in doing this type of thing. Up here there were few. Places that used to do plating for restorers now seem to avoid this kind of work.

 

Brian.

[Bogsye 22]

Thanks for that Brian,

Will give them a shout when i am at that stage.

Grant

 

Hi Grant - From my experience I'd get the gaskets from Pistons & Components over near Ibrox. They seemed able to get Payen kits more easily than WOSE.

 

WOSE seemed to be pretty good for the engineering bit. The receipt ended up being a lump sum for the crank grind and some of the gaskets (Got the sump kit from P&C), and I can't recall the individual prices.

 

Cheers,

 

Brian

[Bogsye 22]

Finally spent an afternoon on the car yesterday!

 

Too many things in the way as usual, top of the list being the torn soft top on my S2000. Now onto the 3rd roof in 4 years. 6 weeks of battle with Honda UK & the dealer have used up precious 205-time (Like Chico-time but different?)

 

I managed to damage the n/s headlamp panel quite badly when towing the car after the clutch cable failed. Tinworm had worked it's magic at the nose of the inner wing and also down the seam at the arch, so there wasn't much option but to start cutting and welding.

 

I ordered a pattern n/s headlamp panel and a new cross member. Think I'll bolt the cross member in, as it'll be easier to use a trolley jack to wheel the engine and transmission back in later.

 

Here's the sad state of affairs when I started..

 

 

You can see the seam on the inner wing back to the strut is pretty poor on the next one.

 

 

A bit of cutting, grinding, welding, rust eating (not me, the gel) and painting saw an afternoons work done.

 

 

View from wheel side

 

 

Next week I just need to add another coat of primer and seam seal once I have the headlamp panel on.

It's not ever going to win a concourse, but it's decently strong and should last good while - Once the washer bottle and headlamp is back in, it's all quite well hidden anyway.

 

Progress at last!! Feels like it's going forward as I'm not in the constant cycle of dismantling.

 

Brian

[MerlinGTI 3]

The little strainer that goes in the cylinder head and protects the cam spraybar also had a good bit of junk in it - filter wire too. Tried to clean it, but it basically disintegrated.

 

 

 

Where does that go buddy? Ive got two heads in bits here and havent seen one?

[Bogsye 22]

Where does that go buddy? Ive got two heads in bits here and havent seen one?

 

Hi Merlin - Sorry for the delay in responding!!

 

It goes into the face of the cylinder head, presumably straining oil fed to the head.

I recall the hole it goes into is not perpendicular to the head face.

 

In fairness though it didn't have much junk in it - It was the strainer on the pump that was quite bad.

 

Cheers,

 

Brian

[Bogsye 22]

Have had a long break from working on the car - rubbish weather and work has got in the way.

 

Today was the first time in ages - in fact so long that the clock in the garage is still on BST!

 

Ordered lots of bits from ECP with their recent discount. Hopefully should all arrive this week.

Also got springs and dampers from Balance Motorsport - Good service from Julian.

 

Got the following to fit.

 

Bilstein B4's

Eibach lowering springs

Gaiters for the rack

Top mount bearings

BBM rop mount rubbers

A pair of new drive shafts

Droplinks

Track rod ends

 

So, spent today stripping the struts - need to get a 21mm swan neck ring spanner to get the springs off.

That leaves the hubs to be cleaned up, which I'll do next weekend.

 

Loads still to do though

 

Renew various wiring connectors

Paint subframe

Underseal front wheel arches

Re-fit n/s front wing

Fit seals to gearbox

Get new front brake discs

Get new front wheel bearings

Fit engine and gearbox

Get injectors cleaned

Replace fuel lines

Get new front fog lights

Sort out new bumper mounts

 

Bugger - that's still lots and lots to do.

 

Still, onwards and upwards. Getting a bit fed up with the R32's passion for fuel, so I'd better get the 205 going pretty soon.

 

Brian

[Bogsye 22]

Stop, start, stop, start. House move (and renovations) and new baby have certainly got in the way of progress. Finally I've got the car at my place and safely tucked up in the garage.

 

205 Gti

 

Looks quite good from the back, but....

 

205 Gti

 

And, finally in the garage - curiously extended tandem affair. Just need to get rid of the house renovation materials.

 

 

205 Gti

 

After a bit of deliberation I decided to take the front subframe off to get it properly cleaned up and also better access to treat some rust. The intention wasn't a full blown restoration, but that's the way it's headed.

 

Currently the suspension and hubs are being blasted in preparation for a coat of POR15. Never tried this on previous jobs, but was worried that powder coating wouldn't last too long as there would be exposed edges for water ingress.

 

True to most people's experience the circlips for the front wheel bearings were a horror to remove. Lots of heating and working away at them paid off - albeit it used up my weeks allocation of 205 time. The bearings then promptly fell to bits leaving the outer races in the hubs. However, I got the local garage to take these out. I assumed they would press them out, but they simply ran some weld onto the running faces which caused enough shrinkage for them to tap out.

 

Should get my cleaned up subframe and hubs back this week, along with various smaller parts that are being powder coated satin black. Just need to get another batch of fasteners away to the electroplaters.

 

Next up, it needs BBM bushes for the gear change pivot on the subframe. Got ARB bushes from Balance Motorsport - as previous good to deal with.

 

Hopefully post some more exciting photos when I start to get the subframe reassembled and then get the engine bay repairs underway.

[Bogsye 22]

Faster turnaround on my cleaned and powder coated bits!

 

205 Gti

 

Clean bits ready for some painting - pronto

 

205 Gti

 

And some freshly powder coated bits. Think I'll try and build complete subassemblies and pack them away safely for refitting.

 

Progress at last.