Thinking Of Getting A Strutbrace

[Rippthrough 98]

Those 3 little bolts are clamping down with over 3 tonnes of pressure either side....

[SurGie 54]

I assume that having a welded in brace would, if the car got hit from the side or the front would protect the

inner wings from being bent to some degree.

 

I have never fitted a welded one before and might be interested in fitting one to my project.

So my question is, how easy is it to weld it in well enough for it to be better than a bolted one ?

 

I assume its not quite as simple as putting it on the plates then weld it, i assume its more technical than that and assume

that TiG welding would be needed for this job.

 

Is there a thread on how to do this job and where to buy one from at all ?

I can TiG and MiG weld it my self BTW.

 

Cheers in advance chaps

[Galifrey 1]

Its swings and roundabouts really...

 

Welded in is stiffer, but can fatigue and crack later, and leaves a chunk of metal unglavanised (no big deal)

 

Bolted is less strong, but serves the main purpose of stopping the turret tops turning in under hard cornering.

 

For a competition car I would go welded along with many other reinforcements, for a road/trackday car, bolted in will almost certainly do what most will need.

 

The turret brace for Rich's car is more competition oriented, but will provide more overall stiffening, which for his project could well be desireable

 

Bear in mind he has also added stiffening to the inner wings as well.

[SurGie 54]

I will be stiffening all my inner wings, sub-frame similar to Rich's, stitch welded as well and ant Rich's car for road use as well as track ?

Afair his thread said its a road use car.

[Baz 421]

I must say 2 of my cars have strut braces fitted, 3 maybe, can't remember. But i've never paid alot if anything for one, and i've only fitted the one. They make a slight difference i agree, but it is very slight IMO, and they're not all they're cracked up to be. I noticed more understeer in the damp, loses a little compliance i guess. Depending factors as usual too, suspension setup etc. A little compliance is fine IMO, otherwise it has to go somewhere else, a bit like the 3wheeling good/bad argument...

 

And i think i'd still prefer just a set of decent strut top plates welded into the car alone.

[omega 82]

if you fit a strut brace is it as good as welding in the top plates?

oversley its not welded all round but it must make the top stronger,or am i missing something?

[Baz 421]

It makes the strut tops stronger as they're prone to 'doming', that's my preference.

[oonip 4]

Just a quick point, i do not have any massive experience of driving cars wth/wothout strut braces back to back, it will obviously make a difference but to what degree is always debatable without good hard testing and data to back it up.

 

Welded is clearly going to give a stronger / stiffer result / more proffesional result, but by how much? again without good data to back it up will remain a debate no doubt.

 

There are a few comments about the original bolts and if they are strong enough, or 'they are strong enough for suspension so they will be fine' etc. It is worth noting that a bolt is suprisingly strong relative to its size, however it provides a clamping force to the strut top in this case putting the bolt into a tensile condition which is it's strongest condition (by a mile) and how it is designed to be used (hence the importance of torque values and overtightening being a problem etc etc) Bolting a strut brace down onto these is not only adding an extra force to the bolts but also applying a shear force on the bolt, and this is never good engineering design practice.

 

However the quantitys of force produced by the strut brace could deem all of this irrelavent and the bolts could well be strong enough, but its not as simple as 'those bolts will be fine, they already do this...'

 

Nick.S

[boombang 2]

I found it made my 106 Gti sharper on track, and more stable through long corners such as School at Anglesey, after fitting a strut brace.

 

By that logic I fitted one to my 309, although that never handled as well.

 

Now I have one on my 205, although it's mainly to cable tie thing to, and lean on when working on it. £20 for those benefits alone make it worthwhile - if it does offer a little more rigidity then all the better (although on a 10 point caged car with stitched seams and various other bits of strengthening I doubt it)

[kyepan 291]

i feel that the set up of my car magnified the effect.

 

309 bones, neutral toe, diff, twitchy front end.

 

i'm not totally sure why it worked so well, but as kev said, it made the car very dependable at the front end. before, it felt like it worked up to a point, but when the chassis got loaded up, especially in low/ medium speed corners with lots of lock, it turned to mush and stopped going where you pointed it.. afterwards the cars manners improved, instead of mush, you reached what felt like a more realistic limit of grip. perhaps a suspension/ contact patch / friction expert could help explain why.

 

i think a standard camber 205 driven to the limits of it's grip, would also reap the same benifits.

 

Rich you're buying a professionally engineered solution that combined with some really clever race experience and improved suspension geometry is going to maximise performance, so of course it's going to be better, much much better, as a package, than whacking a 50p brace on a standard shopping trolley.

 

I find this topic really fascinating, but really don't understand it well enough to say anything more meaningful that my arse and hands tell me when driving the car. If someone who understands dynamics can shed some light, please speak up.

 

J

[number2301 1 1 Cars]

Interesting point in the cosmetic/actual improvement argument, an upper strut brace costs in the region of £60, a lower one £20.

 

i'm also interested in this, i know on a 106 a lot of people claimed that a lower strut bace made a big difference

 

106s don't have a subframe though, so they really need some stiffening down there!

[2052006 10]

I managed to fit mine yesterday (OMP upper), so was able to do an almost back to back comparison, driving it on the same roads on the same day. I'm sure I can notice the difference, not significant, but enough to be noticable - slightly better turn-in and slightly better traction exiting corners.

[steve74 0]

Ok then, we've established they do make a noticeable difference, perhaps not a massive improvement as using welded plates/fabricated bars but a difference non the less. As my cars a road not track car and don't fancy welding, what shall I go for OMP or Sparco or any other suggestions appreciated.

 

Ok then, we've established they do make a noticeable difference, perhaps not a massive improvement as using welded plates/fabricated bars but a difference non the less. As my cars a road not track car and don't fancy welding, what shall I go for OMP or Sparco or any other suggestions appreciated.

 

I have several in my unit,

Like everyone says not very good, i agree.

[Galifrey 1]

I have several in my unit,

Like everyone says not very good, i agree.

 

Define not very good? Compared to what? Which ones?

[Simes 248 2 Cars]

I took mine off when doing some work a couple of yeasrs ago to the engine bay, might stick it back on to see the difference.

At least it gives you something to hold when pushing the car back into the garage!

[MerlinGTI 3]

OMP steel ones have rubbish paint on them and tend to surphace rust quite badly, I stripped mine back and repainted in HS.

Fits ok tho, no clearence issues on a STD or Auto bonnet.

 

When I asked the same question a while ago, I was told them alloy ebay ones are as stiff as a pensioners willy

[SurGie 54]

When I asked the same question a while ago, I was told them alloy ebay ones are as stiff as a pensioners willy

 

 

Very very stiff then as all them pensioners have Viagra

[Jamal 2]

I'm using OMP steel upper and lower braces in my 2.0T.

I can not say anything about the difference, but the existence of these are reassuring.

 

I bought the pair for 32 GBP, the upper needed a sand blasting and powder coating about 8 GBP.

I think they worth it.

[shalmaneser 26]

Just adding my 2p.

 

I just fitted one and have very stiff springs (oooh er) and the difference was striking.

[humanz 3]

I have a cheap (I believe; came with the car) alloy one fitted in mine. Never drove it before so I can't compare back to back. When it was first fitted, a friend had recommended that it be soft rather than stiff. It's been fitted by a proper mechanic now, and I can say once it's been properly adjusted, it's very stiff!

[SurGie 54]

Where can you get them from, or do they have to be made by a fabricator ?

 

 

Are the weld in ones available to buy anywhere ?

 

Cheers

[Batfink 201]

well, mine and richs was made by colin so he might happily supply one. I dont know of any weld in that are available off the shelf. For the extra expense of fitting and the small effect they will benefit I would say unless you are getting other welding work done an off the shelf item will do the job.

[harryskid 193]

I use an OMP on my rally car and they do make a difference. Also the strut tops are plated and welded.

Harryskid

[SurGie 54]

Same here, my chassis will be stitch welded when the time comes so thought

id ask, cheers

[tdr_1976 41 1 Cars]

I purchased this from ebay a couple of months ago, it made a slight difference, worth the £27 posted!