Potentially I'm A Muppet

[happygoron 2]

Following on from this thread:

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=111075

 

The car died again today, sitting at traffic lights. Looking at the problem in a calmer way than I have before I think the engine had cut out before I went for the keys, therefore my initial assumption of an oil pressure problem may have been premature and over the top! I think the car may just be cutting out, with the lights coming on and guage dropping as normal when the engine stops!

 

I'll pause a second for you to all stop laughing at my extreme puganoia causing me to jump to worst case scenarios.

 

And back to the problem. The idea that it's an ignition problem fits with other small issues I mentioned in the above thread:

 

Though this may be unrelated on Thursday morning it failed to start. Had a look that afternoon and saw she wasn't sparking. Noticed a bolt was loose on the distributor cap, take it off and see some sign of fluid ingress, clean it up and she fires first time. All good.

 

She's been running a bit off lately, been having the odd unreproducible engine "shunt", as though she's labouring/kangarooing, only at cruising revs/speed. This seemed to be due to small throttle changes such as lifting off and then she'd jerk a little. It had me thinking but I wasn't overly worried as it wasn't a regular thing.

 

I sometimes also have the engine missfire when started, reving to 2k for a second or two always cures this straight away though.

 

It's only cut out when the engine would have been idling I think, coasting to stops or waiting at lights. Happens with no warning.

 

I've done a search and realise this is a common occourance. Most threads reccomend changing different ignition parts, from the AFM to ignition coil. The fact that I've had the distributor cap off hints to me that I should try changing that first, and maybe the leads as well? Do you reccomend any particular brand of HT leads? Would it be worth changing plugs too (though I wouldn't have thought that a faulty plug could cause a sudden cut out)? Would a coil or ecu problem cause these symptoms too?

 

Are GSF ok for all these ignition bits?

 

Many thanks for your help for the umpteen time,

Neil

[MerlinGTI 3]

Things I would suggest:

 

= Take off the throttle body, take out the mixture screw (count the turns as you will need to put it back in the same amount, pull the screw while you tun it out as well, the rubber gromet seal thing holds it in place, meaning you could be counting turns that are not actually threaded). Clean the shizzle out of all this with brake cleaner. Poke bits of wire in all the little holes to unblock them the lot. A good blast with an airline wouldnt hurt if you have access to one.

 

This should cure the dieing at the lights problem. But while your at it:

 

Use haynes to locate all your engine earths and re-do them, or at least take them off and clean them up with some emry paper.

 

New Dizzy Cap and rotor arm = £10 (ish?)

New NGK BCP7ES Plugs = under a tenner (double check gaps yourself)

New leads (GSF are OE quality, but I like www.performanceleads.co.uk ones for like a fiver more) = £25-£30

New fuel filter = £5

Sod it, why not do the air filter and oil while you are there with the spanners out? (Genuine pug oil filter only dude)

 

Have the CO set up to 1.5% at idle (will be less than 30mins work for a garage)

 

Thats all the cheap or free things that your car will really benifit from, most are regular service items anyway Id be suprised if this doesnt cure your problem and make your car perform a LOT better. In the unlikely event you still have grief next things to look at are ECU temp senders, Ignition amp, coil, Dizzy itself and AFM. But based on your problem I dont think you will need to look at these.

[hexhamstu 9]

my car is doing the exact same thing, I blame swansea! When I start mine up I have to rev it a bit to get it to fire on all 4 after that its fine, but then 50% of the time you put the clutch in the ICV won't catch it and it'll just die off and cut out.

[happygoron 2]

I blame Swansea weather for the length of time it's taking me to sort all this out!

 

 

Merlin: Thanks for that, some very good advice there and a nice shopping list for me to take up GSF! One question though, I don't understand how a dirty throttle body will cause the car to cut out without warning? I can understand that it will cause some degree of rough running, but not cutting out suddenly without warning while at idle? I'm not ignoring that advice, quite the opposite, I'll give it a good clean ASAP. I just want to understand what's going on!

[MerlinGTI 3]

The brass screw on the throttle body controls engine Idle speed by adjusting how much air enters the engine with the throttle closed (brass butterfly inside the throttle body fully shut). Its kinda like a small bypass from the butterfly disk, that will allow enough air in for idling.

 

When this gets gumed up with s*ite (and it will be) the amount of air thats allowed through for idle purposes is hit and miss. You let off the throttle for the lights, the butterfly closes and not enough air goes through the 'butterfly bypass bit where the screw is' (technical ) due to crud to keep the engine alive.

 

Also when the butterfly itself gets gummed up it allows to much air past in the closed position. This causes a high idle speed, which is usually then wrongly adjusted with the brass screw to bring it down.

 

Im pretty sure im right with that crude explination above, but if I have got the theroy wrong it still works in the real world Anyway its nice to have clean bits

Edited December 2, 2009 by MerlinGTI

[MerlinGTI 3]

hexhamstu your problem sounds slighty different, possible damp leads/SAD kinda stuff? its a cold starting problem rather than dieing once warmed up. Mine had a stage of doing that last year around this time, this year its fine again, pretty much what I said above to give you a solid base of stuff to work from in eliminating the problem. I would look at the SAD/ECU temp sender if the other stuff doesnt fix it.

 

I swear 205's just missbehave when they fell like a present in the form of some shiney new parts

[happygoron 2]

Just a little update.

As it hadn't failed to restart after cutting out and it was still intermittent I decided to risk driving it to GSF to get some bits. Obviously this failed miserably with me cuttingout on one of the busiest roads in Swansea and not restarting! RAC man came, was very helpful and we went through loads of possibilities. She was definatly pulsing the spark plugs, at least on one cylinder. The fuel pump was definatly pumping, and the injectors were definatly being pulsed. Therefore I feel it is fairly safe to assume I have spark and fuel, though obviously cannot be 100% sure. The plugs also indicate she's running rich. Also found one of the oil breather pipes has a split, though I wouldn't have thought this would cause any of this kind of problem.

 

She would still only start when she felt like it, and extra throttle didn't seem to help, but was often required when she did fire to keep her running. When she does run she doesn't stall when under load, so managed to get her started and got her home by not letting her idle. Probably sounded a right chav blipping the throttle every time I had to have her in neutral!

 

So this all seems to point to some sort of airfolw, therefore throttle/afm problem? The brass idle screw will be cleaned asap and is definatly a possible culprit but why would it only start intermittently? Confused isn't the word.

[happygoron 2]

Update: Gave the throttle a good clean (on my mother's kitchen table, couldn't get mine dirty!) and went over the air intake and oil breather system, replacing one oil pipe. Seems to have sorted the cutting out prioble, though still have to fiddle with the idle as it's a little high. Cheers for the advice¬

 

As is the way with these cars it seems the fiddling must have disturbed something as my clicky starter and hot start issues have got 2x as bad as they were before! One problem at a time!