Tracking 205 With 309 Arms Etc

[floodys 4 1 Cars]

As per the title just fitted 309 arms and shafts to my 205 gti, i've got tracking gauges and want to set it up, is it the same toe for a 205 or different? if different can someone let me know, also, the car seems to pull to the nearside (prior to fitting the arms and now still with it set at parralell) what could that be? i'm thinking tyres as its got refurbed arms, new track rods ends and tp mounts when fitted the coilovers.

 

p.s last thing, is it best to start from fresh when setting tracking, i.e set the rack with equall turns then wind on track rod ends and wind them so they have equal thread showing when finally tracked? ATM i think the n/s rod has more thread showing than the o/s.

[swordfish210 20]

Cantre the rack then set the tracking to about 1mm toe out for some nice sharp turn it. Or paralell if it's just for road use.

[Cameron 16]

Personal preference really.. Toe out will make it feel slightly twitchy, so if you don't like that stick to the standard 2mm (I think) toe-in.

[Baz 421]

0.

[Galifrey 1]

Toe out is normal for a FWD car as the drive pull forces them back to neutral, the 205 is 1mm toe out isn't it?

 

PS. This is more of a reply to Cameron, I defer entirely to Baz for the OP's question

Edited November 22, 2009 by Galifrey

[swordfish210 20]

The book setting for the 205 is 2mm toe in, bit it makes them feel a bit lifeless compared to when you set them paralell or give them a bit of toe out.

[Galifrey 1]

The book setting for the 205 is 2mm toe in, bit it makes them feel a bit lifeless compared to when you set them paralell or give them a bit of toe out.

 

Wow, I bet it does, toe in on a FWD car is weird.

[swordfish210 20]

Wow, I bet it does, toe in on a FWD car is weird.

 

It's French, they were probably pissed on wine and onions when they set it up.

[SurGie 54]

Iv never heard of onion wine before, seems i need to to France a little more often lol.

 

Seriously though, this is interesting and it seems undecided on which toe the 205 gti should be.

[Galifrey 1]

Iv never heard of onion wine before, seems i need to to France a little more often lol.

 

Seriously though, this is interesting and it seems undecided on which toe the 205 gti should be.

 

Baz says zero, I am inclined to go with him

 

[jimistdt 1]

The toe/in out setting on the 205 is really the only adjustable aspect of the geometry without changing parts for caster and camber.

 

The Haynes states for the Gti that it is as Swordfish says 2.00 (+/-1.00)mm toe in

 

Although I go with the thinking that when drive is applied to the wheels, the car toes in naturally, therefore, I'd be inclined to go with a 0 or very slight toe in.

 

Very much down to personal preference, as you can see.

Edited November 22, 2009 by jimistdt

[SurGie 54]

I understand how its down to personal preference's, but which set up would make it as close as possible to the original

205 gti driving experience ?

[welshpug 1,645]

I understand how its down to personal preference's, but which set up would make it as close as possible to the original

205 gti driving experience ?

 

205 wishbones 1.6 hubs brakes wheels and a 1.6 drum rear beam

 

Tracking set to 1.0-3.0mm toe-in (later revised to 2.0mm +/-1mm for the 1.6, and 2.5mm +/-mm for the 1.9)

[Galifrey 1]

Tracking set to 1.0-3.0mm toe-in (later revised to 2.0mm +/-1mm for the 1.6, and 2.5mm +/-mm for the 1.9)

 

Sorry to question this, but the info on 205gtiinfo says the following...

 

 

So that would be all models 1988+ 1mm toe in +/- 1mm meaning a range of 0-2mm toe in is acceptable. Haynes says all models 1988 onwards 1mm +/- 0.5mm

 

Am tempted to go with 0/1mm for mine which should give some toe in during drive, and still not have excessive toe out during lift off which can make a car squirelly under braking, and give a nice responsive turn in.

[Chris H 10]

definitelly to set your rack in the middle of its travel and equal out the thread length on your track rods.

 

I run my 205 with 309 arms to parallel. Seems to work ok for me.

[welshpug 1,645]

205 wishbones 1.6 hubs brakes wheels and a 1.6 drum rear beam

 

Tracking set to 1.0-3.0mm toe-in (later revised to 2.0mm +/-1mm for the 1.6, and 2.5mm +/-mm for the 1.9)

 

these are figures from a 1989 Haynes manual, first figure is for up to 85, then up to and post 88 for gti's, only base models changed from 88 on, to 5.0mm toe in

 

later copies of the same manual state like you said, 1.0mm, as does the later 309, earlier ones ran similar figures to the early 205 gti's.

[Galifrey 1]

these are figures from a 1989 Haynes manual, first figure is for up to 85, then up to and post 88 for gti's, only base models changed from 88 on, to 5.0mm toe in

 

later copies of the same manual state like you said, 1.0mm, as does the later 309, earlier ones ran similar figures to the early 205 gti's.

 

Thanks Mei, usual concise and imformative post as always.

 

[Cameron 16]

Toe is just a preference thing really, yeah you may get some toe-in through suspension compliance (bushes etc) under throttle, but has anyone actually measured this? I have a hunch that it's just a hunch.

 

Anywho, toe settings are a matter of personal preference really. A car changes direction easier with toe out, so will sharpen turn-in but also make it twitchy at speed and on the brakes. Toe out will make for sluggish toe-in, but generally brings stability at speed unless it is excessive. So if you want it to be obedient and predictable at speed, go with standard toe figures. If you want turn-in to be sharper, but have to be slightly more alert then go for 1-2mm toe out.

[shalmaneser 26]

Mine's at 0 degrees with 1.6 hubs and 309 bones, seems pretty pointy!

[philfingers 5]

i always set mine to parallel, though CraigB was saying his was transformed with (I think!) 2mm toe out, so next time i'll give this a try

[kyepan 291]

309 bones and 0 deg here too, it's twitchy, especially over uneven surfaces on the power.

[daveyboyblack 1]

Apologies for the thread hijack but a quick question for those of you who have changed from 205 arms to 309 ones, was the difference noticeable (all else being equal)?

 

I need 1 new wishbone and a new driveshaft on the other side so thinking of just changing the whole set up but the costs are coming out a fair bit higher compared to the 205 setup, so i'm trying to weigh up the benefits. My mi16 already has a 309 beam and is lowered around 40mm on autofive springs and Gaz shocks.

[matthewm 1]

The difference in length is hardly worth worrying about - if you are renewing then go for 309 but not worth buying for the sake of it..

Edited February 1, 2010 by matthewm

[Baz 421]

The difference in length is hardly worth worrying about - if you are renewing then go for 309 but not worth buying for the sake of it..

 

 

 

The difference in length is actually really quite noticable.