Titanium Valves Xu10j4rs

[davepug205 7]

Hi guys

 

After been messed about by afew engineers near me Im looking for abit of advise.

 

Looking to reduce the risk of my valve heads popping off, and having a friend with a workshop lathe has got me thinking about making my titanium valves.

 

Does anyone know who can supply my friend with the material to make these?

 

Or alternatively does anyone supply/or can make these on here, altho they arent mentioned much? is there a reason for this?

 

Any info please.

 

dave

[Tom Fenton 1,554]

I know a man who can, titanium parts a speciality. I take it you mean titanium valve caps, and not titanium valves?

 

www.force-racing.co.uk

[davepug205 7]

Cheers Tom,

 

Im after the Valves, Caps and Collets in titanium,

 

I will contact force-racing.

 

Cheers

 

Dave

[opticaltrigger 52]

Hi Davepug,The main reason behind using a titainium valve is to reduce weight.

When your cam lobe comes round and starts to move the valve down the guide that valve has a certain amount of inershia to overcome.If your cam profile is quite agressive as in the case of a performance cam the ramps on the lobe face will be very steep meaning that the valve is going to have to accelerate very fast and as you can imagine its much easier to move somthing that is light faster than it is somthing that is heavy.It also follows on the back side of the lobe aswell.As the lobe goes over its apex its the job of the valve spring to track the cam lobe,now when your motor is turning the requirements placed on the spring change from that of compresion to decompresion and at that point the inershia of the valve comes back into play again,and the same rules apply;it's easier to move somthing light,quickly.

 

I've got to tell you though Davepug,brace yourself mate.They can be fantasticaly expensive especialy if you have to have them made.I've had a little bit to do with these on different motors than the pug,and dont missunderstand me they are great and truly light.The problem is that they are whats called a cost verses benefit problem.I dont know what your ultimate state of tune is going to be but unless your truly in there at the cutting edge it's not going to yeild you anything special mate except perhaps a very large bill.They have there place Davepug and it's for motors where you have a cam that has extremely agressive ramps that are required to actuate valves extremely quickly.

 

Hope some of that helps

O.T.

[NNN 1]

Hi Dave, take into account that there is no reason for valve heads popping off if there is no bouncing or may be valve toss. I´m no expert but afaik titanium valves, even though lighter and more suitable for very high rpm´s, are more fragile and tend to brake without bending... where as steel valves are more capable of withstanding impact (not only harder but also absoring energy by bending)... with the seat or even with the piston if the spring is not hard enough or the valve to piston clearence is to small. At the same time steel valves last quite more... if that´s to be considered.

 

Cheers

Nico.-

[Cameron 16]

Why do you want to do this? Your engine must be mental spec to warrant making titanium valves.. what have you done to it?

[Tom Fenton 1,554]

I'm not sure Carl would want to make valves. But he could certainly make the top caps.

[rapidcossie 0]

didnt think gti6 engine suffered from dropping valves?

[Cameron 16]

Yeah I imagine valves won't be just a simple machining operation..

[Tom Fenton 1,554]

They'd be dead easy, you'd just waste a s*it load of material! But I'm pretty sure he'll not want to make valves.

[Cameron 16]

Well, I mean that it won't just be machine, done, in the engine.. Surely they'll need some sort of heat treatment?

[Rippthrough 98]

I know Foucart turns down some titanium bike valves to use in his gti6 motors, but I don't know what they're from, I seem to remember his mentioning they're from a Kawasaki, but may be wrong.

[Galifrey 1]

I know Foucart turns down some titanium bike valves to use in his gti6 motors, but I don't know what they're from, I seem to remember his mentioning they're from a Kawasaki, but may be wrong.

 

There is a Motorcycle place that does blank titanium valves you can machine to suit, I will try and find them.

 

http://www.ferrea.com/catalog/2009/Dom_TValves_Blanks.pdf

Edited November 22, 2009 by Galifrey

[davepug205 7]

Thanks for the replies guys

 

The engine build is been designed for an N/A using high rpm, so strength and weight is my way of thinking. Although I'm not aiming for a certain bhp figure.

 

I want to make the build a lot more free revving , so knife edging the EW crank etc will hopefully bring a lot more character to the engine.

 

I was under the impression Titanium is a lot more stronger, as in toughened so to speak, so will shatter when something goes wrong but will be a lot more durable to wearing.

 

Initially I'm going for wild Cams but I'm joying with the idea of been able to swap back to standard cams and run a S/C in the future.

 

I'm wanting to reduce the risk of my hard work and not to mention money, chewing on a valve.

 

Any thoughts appreciated.

 

Dave

[Cameron 16]

I'm pretty sure Titanium is less tough than steel.. roughly 2/3 of the tensile strength and 1/2 the young's modulus.

[davepug205 7]

Cheers Cameron some good info there so I shall keep with stardard valves .

 

So what does cause this common problem with valve heads just out of intrest?

 

Cheers

Dave

[Rippthrough 98]

I'm pretty sure Titanium is less tough than steel.. roughly 2/3 of the tensile strength and 1/2 the young's modulus.

 

It does retain more strength at high temperatures however, and of course, being lighter, there's less stress anyway.

[welshpug 1,670]

Cheers Cameron some good info there so I shall keep with stardard valves .

 

So what does cause this common problem with valve heads just out of intrest?

 

Cheers

Dave

 

pistons twatting them normally!

[Cameron 16]

I think the problem with valve heads falling off is down to poor repairs post cambelt failure. If you have a slightly bent valve then it's going to be bent straight every time the engine turns over (thousands of times a minute) and eventually fatigue and fall off.

 

Good point though, Ti valves require softer springs so there's less stress involved. They work, obviously, as they are used a lot in motorsport and some production engines, so don't be put off so easily. There's nothing wrong with pushing the envelope and your development may well start a mini revolution if it works! So if you're keen to give it a try, go for it and I'll be watching with interest!

Edited November 22, 2009 by Cameron

[kyepan 291]

what are sodium filled valves for then? (like integra type r, and a few other exotic engines )

 

is that to dissipate heat?

 

j

[Rippthrough 98]

what are sodium filled valves for then? (like integra type r, and a few other exotic engines )

 

is that to dissipate heat?

 

j

 

Mainly, yes.

[welshpug 1,670]

think they were used in some vauxhall XE or the later ZE engines too

[taylorspug 7]

T16 engines use sodium filled exhaust valves too.

[opticaltrigger 52]

Sodium has a relativley low melting point and good thermal sink properties.When the valve is manufactured a small amount of sodium is placed inside the stem of the valve and when the valve is heated during operation the sodium changes to a liquid state and is thrown up and down the inside of the valve.It only realy cools the valve indirectly because as the liquid sodium sloshes around inside the valve it picks up heat from the hotter areas and deposites it into cooler areas of the valve,making an atempt to even the overall temprature of it.By doing this the heat in the valve can be passed to the cylinder head and subsiquent coolant much more effectivley because the effective area of the heated component is increased.

Imagine a one foot cube of say hot copper.If you were to place just the end of the tip of one corner into a bath of cold water it would'nt realy effect its heat,but drop it in so its effective area is increased and it will cool off real fast.

 

It is possible to have the best of both worlds and have sodium filled titanium valves.At this point you are knocking on the door of the truly exotic in terms of popet valve technology.And while it is possible to obtain such things,you would certainlty have to have them made.As with all things labeled exotic the down side is of course cost.

 

All the best

O.T.

[petert 601]

I'd just get single piece valves made from 21/4N and tufftrided.