Sbc Phase 2

[2052006 10]

Can someone who actually has the SBC phase 2 tell me the size of their ARB and torsion bars?

 

I've done loads of searching and from what I can tell, it is probably 23mm ARB and 20mm bars, but I've seen 21mm bars mentioned too. So anyone know for sure?

 

And before someone points out the obvious - I rang SBC and they wouldn't tell me!!

[welshpug 1,655]

why wouldn't they tell you?

 

I believe FEB' s sorrento 205 runs their Roadspeed 2 setup, from what I can remember that si 21mm bars and a 23mm arb as you mentioned, plus their camber kit and Bilstein dampers, unsure which ones they use on the back, possibly PTS tarmac spec, the fronts are re-valved Bilstein to their specification.

[McDude 33]

Perhaps they wouldn't tell you so that you don't copy their recipe?

 

I believe it is 21mm Torsion 23mm ARB as mentioned plus a pretty funky looking stub axle/spacer conversion that widens the track and gives a degree of negative camber and something like 0.25 of toe in

 

I think the rear shocks are just standard yellow bilsteins, well that's what they look like. The fronts are revalved and on mine the strut is painted green to differentiate it (perhaps!?!?!)

[Toddy 7]

iirc Del told me when I enquired, and they had no stock that it was 20mm t/b's and 23mm ARB with gravel spec Group n rears and re-valved bilstein inserts upfront. Seems to me they simply copied what peugeot sport offered for gravel applications and added the neg camber/toe adjustment/increased track rear stub pins.

[NeilGTi85 5]

Skip Brown Cars phase 1 - revalved Bilstein shocks, -25mm dual rate front springs and rear torsion bars adjusted to suit front ride height.

Skip Brown Cars phase 2 - uprated torsion bars, uprated rear anti-roll bar and rear negative camber suspension kit.

 

I can measure mine if needs be?

 

Neil

[2052006 10]

Perhaps they wouldn't tell you so that you don't copy their recipe?

 

I believe it is 21mm Torsion 23mm ARB as mentioned plus a pretty funky looking stub axle/spacer conversion that widens the track and gives a degree of negative camber and something like 0.25 of toe in

 

I think the rear shocks are just standard yellow bilsteins, well that's what they look like. The fronts are revalved and on mine the strut is painted green to differentiate it (perhaps!?!?!)

 

Not sure on their reasoning not to tell me or whether the person I spoke to just didn't know. Anyway, there's more than one way to skin a cat (and cheaper ways too...)

 

I have the phase 1 kit at the moment.

 

Skip Brown Cars phase 1 - revalved Bilstein shocks, -25mm dual rate front springs and rear torsion bars adjusted to suit front ride height.

Skip Brown Cars phase 2 - uprated torsion bars, uprated rear anti-roll bar and rear negative camber suspension kit.

 

I can measure mine if needs be?

 

Neil

 

If you could measure your's that'd be much appreciated There seems to be a little confusion over whether the bars are 20 or 21mm.

 

Thanks.

[NeilGTi85 5]

No Probelm, Will have a measure over the weekend an post up my findings on monday.

 

Neil

[pug_ham 244 3 Cars]

The info I got from someone on here when discussing the sbc phase 1 / 2 suspension kits was they both had the same size bars.

just to confirm SBC phase 2 is 20mm t/b's and 23mm ARB as I spoke to Del this week.

Shame I can't remember who it was & don't have the original pm (text copied from exported doc).

 

IIRC they were from Sheffield & had an Elsie as well as their 205.

 

Graham.

[jimistdt 1]

.......had an Elsie as well as their 205.

 

Graham.

 

I have an aunt Ethel.

 

 

[NeilGTi85 5]

^^WTF^^

 

Mine came out at 21.5mm.

 

Neil

[Super Josh 4]

The info I got from someone on here when discussing the sbc phase 1 / 2 suspension kits was they both had the same size bars.

 

The phase 1 kit is just the 4 dampers and front springs and is meant for people on a budget who want to do this part first and then upgrade to the phase 2 kit later on acording to Paul @ SBC.

 

And it's 21mm TBs 23mm ARB

 

 

 

Josh

[Toddy 7]

The info I got from someone on here when discussing the sbc phase 1 / 2 suspension kits was they both had the same size bars.

 

Shame I can't remember who it was & don't have the original pm (text copied from exported doc).

 

IIRC they were from Sheffield & had an Elsie as well as their 205.

 

Graham.

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?s...43&hl=nickr

 

Graham it seems strange that Del told me 20mm and from the topic above you measured NickR's as 20mm as well, either they changed the spec or Del provided misleading info.

[2052006 10]

So... it's either 20 or 21 or maybe even 21.5!!! Think I'll presume then that it's 21mm. Neil - thanks for having a look.

 

One more thought: Does the fact that I've fitted a heavier engine upfront, ie. compressing the springs (I presume) a little more than with an alloy block, have a bearing on how stiff the rear should be? ie. should it be that little bit stiffer or that little bit less stiff? Does that make sense?!

[shalmaneser 26]

I guess in that case you'll be running more sag (i.e. it'll be more than a 25mm drop) so it depends on whether you've got progressive or linear springs. They're probably progressive so in effect you'll be running a slightly higher spring rate than 'standard' (for the springs) at the front, although the increase might be purely academic; I doubt many drivers would notice it...

 

Ultimately i guess the best solution is to fit the thicker bars (21mm it seems) and find out how the balance of the car feels.

 

PS this is only off the back of my own research, I'm in a similar position to you ATM it seems...stiff front end and all squidgy at the back (that's what she said etc etc)

[feb 47]

As already mentioned by McDude the negative camber kit provides:

1 degree negative camber

18mm track increase

20-25 minutes toe in

Edited March 22, 2011 by feb

[Anthony 1,002]

And for confirmation to one of the above posts, Feb's old GTi-S with Phase 2 suspension had 20mm torsion and 23mm anti-roll bars fitted when I measured it a few months back.

[j_turnell 136 3 Cars]

Im surprised by the amount of toe in, thats quite a bit.

[Toddy 7]

Im surprised by the amount of toe in, thats quite a bit.

 

 

Why is roughly 1-1.25mm toe in per side seen as a lot?, thought this would be a minimium to help stability and scrub a little heat into the tyres as this is a road bias setup.

[welshpug 1,655]

20-25Min of toe is sod all isnt it? not sure what that translates to in MM though.

 

Standard 205's 3.6mm toe and 0/50 (deg/min) camber, 309 runs 5mm toe and 1/15 camber.

 

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=56644&st=0&p=526084entry526084

 

edit, missed the post above trying to find the data linked to, seems SBC have tried to improve turn in rather than high speed stability.

 

Does make sense with the experience I got of driving the car Anthony had his SBC parts from, it was quite a lot more pointy than my own car though the whole package contributed to that.

Edited March 22, 2011 by welshpug

[feb 47]

Does anyone know how to convert minutes to degrees?

 

I thought 60 minutes would be 360 degrees but doing the conversion above doesn't give meaningful results.

[j_turnell 136 3 Cars]

60 mins is 1 degree. So almost 1/2 degree toe in according to Febs figures, seems a bit excessive from my experience, I would have expected it to be nearer 10-15mins.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Having fitted one of these kit's on the back, I really don;t like them, A pin that rotates to get the camber and Toe etc is just a miss match and hope for the best and even then you cannot get the back spot on, Much better off getting the arms machined for huge camber or the old 306/Xsara arm's.

 

Slight off topic but a note to all

[welshpug 1,655]

if 25 min toe is about 1.15mm per side as Toddy said, then it's not far off standard toe in, and nothing near what a Xsara runs.