Front Brakes For 205 Rally Car/track Car ?

[philfingers 5]

I've been dead lucky with RS4-2 rears, found 3 sets of rears at £5 each and another set at £20 which I sold on Ebay for £75! But no luck finding cheap fronts. the problem is they're so good that even with the bias valve set to minimum braking to the rear (RS4-2) it's not enough with the Pagid fast road ones in the front and I keep locking the back, even in the dry. I'm considering Carbon Lorraine's for the front to dry and balance the braking force a little

[Galifrey 1]

I use Pagid RS4-2 on my 205 Euro Rallye (1.6 GTi brakes) and they are brilliant

 

Indeed but seriously expensive, £150 a set I was quoted!

 

But they are awesome pads.

[SPGTi 2]

steve what tyres did you run on . Ihave have run that set up for three years and never experienced the problem you describe . they are heavy though

 

I was running part worn knobblies I think. Also tried them with road tyres and snow tyres around the streets and just never got on with them.

 

Steve

[davidc 0]

Whats peoples thoughts on the 307 HDi brakes ?

 

Are these the same as the 206 GTi 180's ?

 

 

Cheers,

David

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Pads are expensive for 307 HDi calipers IIRC, I mean who makes performance pads for a 307 diesel...

[philfingers 5]

Whats peoples thoughts on the 307 HDi brakes ?

 

Are these the same as the 206 GTi 180's ?

 

 

Cheers,

David

 

similar weight I believe David

[davidc 0]

similar weight I believe David

 

 

Cheers Phil...

 

I had a look of brakes international, very good website !!

 

I was looking at the price of a pair of exchange 1.9 Gti calipers, 306 GTi-6 calipers & 307 HDi calipers & there realy isn't a lot between them price wise, the big question is whats best ?

 

If all else fails (& I cant come to a conclusion....) then a set of exchange 1.9 GTi calipers, good plain discs & some Pagid pads (maybe !!)

 

How are the Mintex 1144, 1155 etc ?

 

Any other good pads ?

 

Pagids seem to be very expensive eh !!

 

 

Cheers,

David

[Rippthrough 98]

1144's are a decent road/light track pad.

Carbotech Xp8's I mentioned earlier are on a par with the Pagids price-wise, but they are a very hardwearing pad, so if you're keeping the car a while, they actually work out quite cheap per mile.

[philfingers 5]

When i got my car the 1144's in the front fell off the backing when i pulled them out, they were fried. The car's last outing was Mull 2006 and as i understood it they had done the whole event on one set of pads

It finished Mull twice, 61st and 63rd I think it. Which for a 1900 8v (GpA cam, LAD head, HC pistons all on std management and inlet) against much more expensive machinery and a 180 car entry is pretty damn good.

So I suppose the proof there is 1900 std brakes with 1144 pads are good enough to start with. I understand the car is a semi budget starter car for your brother.

The Pagid pads are better, but 1144 or 1155's would serve you well

[jedibusa 0]

Interesting thread and difficult to decide on a brake set up without being able to try them all.

 

I replaced my worn out standard (1.9gti) brakes with standard recon calipers from ebc (front and rear) along with ebc discs and yellow stuff pads. There can be a big discount if you go direct and they are for motorsport purposes. I also fitted a brake bias valve and Millers racing brake fluid.

 

This set up was excellent for racing with the stock engine. However for this last year i have been racing with a tuned MI16 engine and although the brakes stop me fairly well, i can't help thinking they could be better. Don't get me wrong the balance is good and it brakes as well as many kit cars.

 

I too have thought about the GTI6 brakes but have dismissed them as too heavy for not much gain. I think the only upgrade option worth considering for racing as many have mentioned is lightweight 4 pots and alloy bells but then is the cost worth it. I am not so sure as at the end of the day i only race for fun and standard discs/ yellowstuff pads are very cheap.

 

Not much help i know but i think there are many of us that don't know which direction to take.

[Batfink 201]

Interesting thread and difficult to decide on a brake set up without being able to try them all.

 

I replaced my worn out standard (1.9gti) brakes with standard recon calipers from ebc (front and rear) along with ebc discs and yellow stuff pads. There can be a big discount if you go direct and they are for motorsport purposes. I also fitted a brake bias valve and Millers racing brake fluid.

 

This set up was excellent for racing with the stock engine. However for this last year i have been racing with a tuned MI16 engine and although the brakes stop me fairly well, i can't help thinking they could be better. Don't get me wrong the balance is good and it brakes as well as many kit cars.

 

I too have thought about the GTI6 brakes but have dismissed them as too heavy for not much gain. I think the only upgrade option worth considering for racing as many have mentioned is lightweight 4 pots and alloy bells but then is the cost worth it. I am not so sure as at the end of the day i only race for fun and standard discs/ yellowstuff pads are very cheap.

 

Not much help i know but i think there are many of us that don't know which direction to take.

 

have you tried some decent race pads? EBC are well and truly in the budget range with the performance to match. Saying that all you will gain is better brake feel, more bite and better consistancy when hot/cold. These will give a lot more confidence in your braking. Saying that - to stop faster you need better tyres, suspension and chassis as these have a big effect on your road/tyre friction by either improving the grip or reducing the weight transfer under braking.

 

Kev

[philfingers 5]

SPGTi has a car with yellows all around and what he was saying the other day I think he reckons the Carbon Lorraine are still better.

Steve? Comments!

[sam jfm 0]

i really rate m1155's myself, had them in some 1.6 brakes and the stopping was much much better!

[jedibusa 0]

have you tried some decent race pads? EBC are well and truly in the budget range with the performance to match. Saying that all you will gain is better brake feel, more bite and better consistancy when hot/cold. These will give a lot more confidence in your braking. Saying that - to stop faster you need better tyres, suspension and chassis as these have a big effect on your road/tyre friction by either improving the grip or reducing the weight transfer under braking.

 

Kev

 

 

I agree totally about ebc being budget, however i do have confidence in the brakes i just think with the car i have it could brake a little quicker. Again without trying different pads or using the experience of others it is hard to know what changes to make. I run Toyo 888 which are again budget tyres but there is a lot i could do to improve the chassis especially reducing weight.

 

 

The vid shows the brakes were performing ok at Mallory.

 

Has anyone used yellowstuff and then switched to something they find better?

[Rob Thomson 6]

It's impossible to say which are best, it's totally subjective to the driver and use.

 

Do you want good feel? Do you want low unsprung weight? Do you want to run with or without a servo? Do you want good cold friction or are you happy to be a bit circumspect the first time you prod the pedal? Do you want to pay £90 for a set of pads or £900?

 

For what it's worth I used to do tarmac stage rallies in a 106 Rallye (which uses 205 1.6 GTi front brakes) with M1155 pads and they were great. Never had any fade and they'd stop the car faster than me (ie. I'm a chicken and never brake quite as late as physics allow when there's no run-off). Did a track day at Cadwell Park in my 205 1.6 GTi recently, standard brakes with M1155 pads again, and they were great; no fade and really excellent at hauling it down from speed. The brakes weren't the limit in either case. On the other hand, I tried GTi-6 brakes on my old 309 Mi16 and hated them; totally f***ed up the feel and balance.

 

My advice; replace with standard calipers and discs, fit some decent pads (i.e. not EBCs) and upgrade in the future only if/when you have any need to.

Edited November 25, 2009 by Rob Thomson

[davidc 0]

My advice; replace with standard calipers and discs, fit some decent pads (i.e. not EBCs) and upgrade in the future only if/when you have any need to.

 

Sounds good, I think this is the road we will go down, new std discs & calipers with Mintex 1155's....somewhere to start !!

 

Thanks for all the info.

 

Cheers,

David

[kyepan 291]

second vote for that, dont get something heavy, or wilwoods, as they fall to bits.

[Batfink 201]

I agree totally about ebc being budget, however i do have confidence in the brakes i just think with the car i have it could brake a little quicker. Again without trying different pads or using the experience of others it is hard to know what changes to make. I run Toyo 888 which are again budget tyres but there is a lot i could do to improve the chassis especially reducing weight.

 

 

The vid shows the brakes were performing ok at Mallory.

 

Has anyone used yellowstuff and then switched to something they find better?

 

Looks a good setup to me.

Unless you are suffering from fade you wont see any benefit from four pot calipers or bigger disks and pads, other than a change in feel.

Run the yellowstuffs until they need replacing, then try another race pad from carbone lorraine, mintex or ferrodo then formulate an opinion.

[jedibusa 0]

Looks a good setup to me.

Unless you are suffering from fade you wont see any benefit from four pot calipers or bigger disks and pads, other than a change in feel.

Run the yellowstuffs until they need replacing, then try another race pad from carbone lorraine, mintex or ferrodo then formulate an opinion.

 

 

Thanks Batfink. No fade at all and good feel.

 

I intend to do exactly that and compare the differences myself. As mentioned before brakes are all about your own preferences and your confidence with the setup you have.

 

I know the current ebc yellowstuff compound is much better than their early attempts although they seem to have a bad reputation. I will find out when i try the more expensive alternatives.

[Garry 1]

Thanks Batfink. No fade at all and good feel.

 

I intend to do exactly that and compare the differences myself. As mentioned before brakes are all about your own preferences and your confidence with the setup you have.

 

I know the current ebc yellowstuff compound is much better than their early attempts although they seem to have a bad reputation. I will find out when i try the more expensive alternatives.

 

I have switched from M1155's to Yellowstuff (I run the GTI6 set up). The M1155's were bomb proof before the added power of the charger, but afterwards I was getting lots of fade. I bought a set of yellows to try and they have held up really well. I would like more braking power which is why I am considering some form of 4 pot set up, but considering the cost of them I really rate the Yellows.

[davidc 0]

I have switched from M1155's to Yellowstuff (I run the GTI6 set up). The M1155's were bomb proof before the added power of the charger, but afterwards I was getting lots of fade. I bought a set of yellows to try and they have held up really well. I would like more braking power which is why I am considering some form of 4 pot set up, but considering the cost of them I really rate the Yellows.

 

If your uprating to 4 pots you could always sell us your working order set up that you have just now ???

 

Cheers,

David

[Garry 1]

Yes, could do ........

If we did do a deal it would be the Calipers, yellow stuff pads and possibly the braided lines (I don't think I need them for the 4 pots). The 4 pots would use the discs so I will keep them. Although there are few 'kits' for sale knocking around, so you don't need to wait for me.

[philfingers 5]

where's the best place for Carbon Lorraine's and EBC Yellow then guys? Obviously by best i mean cheapest!

[welshpug 1,668]

EBC probably best for the Yellows if they're for Motosport use as I believe they'll give you a discount, Pugtop has been using them in a 1.6 Stage Rally car for a few years without issues (i.e stock 1.6 engine, Stock 1.6 brake setup, PTS tarmac suspension, standard wheels and AO48's)

 

the Carbon Lorraine I think Batfink does through his online Shop KAM racing.

 

http://www.kamracing.co.uk/

Edited November 26, 2009 by welshpug

[Batfink 201]

Kam Racing is limited in range as its only for certain cars. I have a new site to go with the new name for carbone lorraine

http://www.clbrakes.co.uk

 

I havent got the aftermarket caliper ranges on yet but will shortly..

Edited November 26, 2009 by Batfink