Front Brakes For 205 Rally Car/track Car ?

[davidc 0]

We're in the process of building a tarmac raly/track 205 1.9 GTi.

 

The front brakes on it have seen better days.

 

What are the best options for tarmac rally/track use ?

 

I've seen a 205 here with the alloy Brembo 4 pots & I presume these are from the 406 ? Are these a good option ? Should we change master cylinder for this set up ?

 

Or....what about the 307 brakes ? Would this be a sensible option too ? Are competition pads available for these ? Does the master cylinder need changed ?

 

Any help greatly appreciated !

 

Cheers,

David

[Baz 421]

Why not just renew/refurb the standard ones? (Presuming they're 1.9 ones).

 

Do a search as there's plenty of info on here about people's brake recommendations.

[davidc 0]

Why not just renew/refurb the standard ones? (Presuming they're 1.9 ones).

 

Do a search as there's plenty of info on here about people's brake recommendations.

 

The thinking was that if we need to replace the 1.9 ones (which we do) then why not get something a bit better,hence the question.

 

Cheers,

David

[Baz 421]

Because the 1.9 ones in fine fettle with decent pads and fluid are great, well up to the job. That was my point.

 

But then some of the GpA Tarmac cars did run bigger/lighter Alcon 4pots too. Although i had a set of these and didn't find them worth sticking with much over the standard setup, bar the weight loss anyway.

 

Bit if you want to go bigger, then there's lots of options available, GTi6, Gti180/307Hdi 283mm setups, or 266mm setups from Zx16v/306 S16/HDi's etc. As well as the Brembo 4 pots from the 406 coupe, but they're not so simple to fit.

 

And then of course plenty of aftermarket kits, wilwood, compbrake, hi-spec etc.

Edited November 18, 2009 by Baz

[welshpug 1,657]

I'd echo Baz's comment, a friend of mine has been rallying his 205 for the part 5 or so years on 1.6 brakes and EBC yellowstuff pads, having been in it a few times on track it certainly does haul up very well.

[Ronnie the Root 0]

Alcon 4pots are very good with Padgit Blue Competition Pads and Grooved disks. this will fit the 15" rim but an expensive setup. worth it for rallying as that is wat we use them for. we got them off Skip Brown

[davidc 0]

Bit if you want to go bigger, then there's lots of options available, GTi6, Gti180/307Hdi 283mm setups, or 266mm setups from Zx16v/306 S16/HDi's etc. As well as the Brembo 4 pots from the 406 coupe, but they're not so simple to fit.

 

So whats the best out of that lot ? price ? availability of competition pads ? etc ?

 

Are the GTi6 & GTi 180/307 HDi the same brakes ?

 

Cheers,

David

[Baz 421]

Not the same no, the GTi6 ones have a larger piston but slightly smaller pad area, or something like that, and are a bit heavier than the GTi180/HDi ones.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Baz

[davidc 0]

So it seems the 206 GTi 180/307 HDi set up is the best al round ?

 

Do I just need the discs & calipers ?

 

Someone said I'd need longer hoses, is this true ?

 

Are competition pads available ? What is best for rally/track ?

 

 

Cheers,

David

[Batfink 201]

surely handling and suspension movement is key to a rally car. All these options are heavy and do effect the handling and damping control in a noticable way.

If you cannot afford some nice light 4 pots I personally would stick with the smaller standard caliper and some proper race pads.

[Rippthrough 98]

What Kev said, you want as little weight in that suspension as you can possibly get, it's even more influential in a rally car than it is a road or track car, if you have to go for bigger discs, I'd try 266's first.

[davidc 0]

surely handling and suspension movement is key to a rally car. All these options are heavy and do effect the handling and damping control in a noticable way.

If you cannot afford some nice light 4 pots I personally would stick with the smaller standard caliper and some proper race pads.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

The problem is that the front brake calipers & discs are not in a very good condition & therefrore, rather than just replace with standard items we were looking at what other options were available.

 

Wheres the best place to get re-conditioned or new 1.9 GTi calipers from ? Any suggestions ?

 

 

Cheers,

David

[welshpug 1,657]

any Motorfactor! a very common brake caliper on early 90's French small hot hatches

[pdd144c 0]

Hi-Spec do a cheap 4 pot kit that fits under 15's, or AP do one if money isn't an issue!

[davidc 0]

Hi-Spec do a cheap 4 pot kit that fits under 15's, or AP do one if money isn't an issue!

 

Thanks for the suggestion.

 

We're trying to keep the cost down as its just a cheap starter car for my younger brother.

 

Cheers,

David

[philfingers 5]

David

I'd stay with std, either get some recon or good ones, refurb them ( www.brakesint.co.uk good for parts ). GTi6 and HDi ones are good but you won't half notice the difference.

Get some decent pads, std aftermarket good quality (lockheed, brembo) discs and give it a try.

[davidc 0]

David

I'd stay with std, either get some recon or good ones, refurb them ( www.brakesint.co.uk good for parts ). GTi6 and HDi ones are good but you won't half notice the difference.

Get some decent pads, std aftermarket good quality (lockheed, brembo) discs and give it a try.

 

I'll have a look on their website. The calipers we have for it have been sitting unused for 3 years at least & are no good, maybe only good for exchange for recon items.

 

Are you saying the GTi6 brakes compared to the 1.9 GTi brakes are not that much of a difference ?

 

Any advice on pads ?

 

Cheers,

David

[SPGTi 2]

I ran the GTi180 discs on my road rally car for one event and then binned them. They are soooo heavy, difficult to modulate and locked up the front wheels way to easy. I went to standard calipers, Carbon Lorraine RC6 pads which are awesome, cheap factor discs which I replace after about every 4 events, braided lines and ATE Blue racing fluid and the performance is brilliant.

If you want to go bigger, do it properly with alloy bells, and 4 pot calipers.

 

Steve

[oonip 4]

uprated disc and pads will improve your cars breaking no end. Stock to standard calipers. Do not scrimp on discs. Padgit Blue, Ferrodo DS25HP or DS2500 are also a good pad. AP have also just released thier own pads...

[Rippthrough 98]

Had some superb results with Carbotech XP8/XP10's on the buggies too, great pads.

[Craigb 2]

I ran the GTi180 discs on my road rally car for one event and then binned them. They are soooo heavy, difficult to modulate and locked up the front wheels way to easy. I went to standard calipers, Carbon Lorraine RC6 pads which are awesome, cheap factor discs which I replace after about every 4 events, braided lines and ATE Blue racing fluid and the performance is brilliant.

If you want to go bigger, do it properly with alloy bells, and 4 pot calipers.

 

Steve

 

steve what tyres did you run on . Ihave have run that set up for three years and never experienced the problem you describe . they are heavy though

[Baz 421]

Alcon 4pots are very good with Padgit Blue Competition Pads and Grooved disks. this will fit the 15" rim but an expensive setup. worth it for rallying as that is wat we use them for. we got them off Skip Brown

uprated disc and pads will improve your cars breaking no end. Stock to standard calipers. Do not scrimp on discs. Padgit Blue, Ferrodo DS25HP or DS2500 are also a good pad. AP have also just released thier own pads...

 

Pagid.

[madaxgt 0]

I have a kit available soon using some ap 2 pot calipers (readily available), 307 discs and ally mounting brackets. Give nice sharp braking with more stopping power than a gti6 setup and notice wheel control from the reduced mass.

 

DavidC if your interested pm me for details and pics. People have tried this setup and its highly rated.

Edited November 20, 2009 by madaxgt

[davidc 0]

Thanks for all the replies so far.

 

This set up with the AP calipers sounds interesting....PM sent !!

 

 

Cheers,

David

[205Rallee 59]

I use Pagid RS4-2 on my 205 Euro Rallye (1.6 GTi brakes) and they are brilliant, maybe a wee bit too aggresive for soft road tyres. Also used them on a 1.9GTi rally car (std 1.9 brakes) running on Pirelli moulded slicks and the brakes were awesome. The hotter they got the faster it stopped. Get them from Questmead. OK so they cost £130 or so but much better value than uprated brake sytems you don't need.