A 205 4x4 Question

[iamjackiechan 0]

hi

ive been looking at previous posts on 4x4 conversions, the most common seems to be welding in mounts for the

rear axle and having independent rear suspension.

 

is there an easier way of doing this, i remember seeing a post were someone was fitting the 4x4 running gear

from the 405 but i cant find the post.

 

any help would be much appreciated

 

cheers

[SurGie 54]

Someone i talked to at Pugfest told me that he used the 405 4x4 running gear, so i asked him how he managed to make

the rear axle the same width as a 1.9.

I was told he welded the beam together after taking whats needed out of it.

He must have had the right length rear drive shafts made from somewhere, not sure what other cars drive shafts would fit the beam.

[pip470 61]

The 405 does not use a beam the same as a 205 Surgie, so I'm afraid whoever you spoke to, you either misunderstood or he was telling porkeys. The 405 4x4 has a transfer box thats bolted in a sort of subframe, with wishbones coming off the subframe that support the bottom of the stub axles, then the top is supported using a mcpherson strut and top mount. Thirdtimelucky has done this conversion so he is the man to speak to. They may even be pictures of his car on here but I can't find them at the minute.

Edited November 17, 2009 by pip470

[Goliath 94]

As far as I understand the 405 MI4x4's have a torsion beam rear setup but Paul and Mark have done away with this and gone for independant rear suspension to make life easier.

I could be wrong though!

[pip470 61]

I stand corrected, cheers George!

[ade 4wd 11]

It was me you spoke to at Pugfest. My 205 4x4 uses a 405 4x4 rear subframe that was reduced in width by 100mm. The 405 subframe is a beam with trailing arms but has no torsion bars. It has hydraulic rams instead for the self leveling suspension.

[SurGie 54]

Hi there,

 

Wow you have a good memory, it was 3 years ago when we spoke at Pugfest in 2006.

I wished i had looked under your car but there was too many 205's to go and have a good look at, it was my

first Pugfest.

 

How does it drive ?

Does it under-steer round corners more than a normal 205 with it being 4wd ?

[ade 4wd 11]

I did the 4x4 conversion 6 years ago, how time flies. It would only under steer if driven hard in the wet, otherwise it was like being on rails.

 

Ade,

[thirdtimelucky 3]

There are a few ways to 4wd the 205, use a modified 405 4wd rear subframe, needs a fair bit of cutting to make it fit and the mounting points on the 205 will probably need modifying. you could use the Dangle method and use the 205 torsion beam and modify the arms to accept some drive shafts this would probably be the most factory looking conversion, I looked at doing it this way but it seemed a bit limited on ride hight options and ground clearance.

 

 

I opted for making my own subframe to mount the dif and lower arms and make turrets to accept 205 front springs and shocks. I havent got any decent photos all I could find was some I took when I building it.

 

 

Keep looking on the forum there a few threads about 4wd 205's, Ill do a project thread on mine one day, just got to finish some of the other projects first.

[iamjackiechan 0]

thanks alot for the replies.

 

when fitting the 405 4x4 rear setup why do you need to shorten it, if you an get it to fit can you run it complete with hubs shafts shocks etc.

 

also what engine, gearbox and shafts do you use, any other modifications needed.

 

lastly prop shaft wise, do you run the 405 one chopped down or a one off one.

 

sorry if the questions sound abit stupid

 

cheers will

[welshpug 1,657]

the 405 is a lot wider and longer than a 205.

[iamjackiechan 0]

but surely that is only going to result in the wheels sticking out further

[ade 4wd 11]

If the 405 subframe isnt stortened the wheels will stick out 50mm on each side, would be ok if fitting a dimma kit. I used the engine, gearbox and transfer box from an mi16x4. I also used the propshaft which was shortened and balanced.

[iamjackiechan 0]

cool, so could i use my s16 engine on the 405 gearbox or would that not work

[thirdtimelucky 3]

cool, so could i use my s16 engine on the 405 gearbox or would that not work

It would work fine but you would need to grind some of the webbing of the back of the block so the transfer box would fit. Iv run an alloy mi and an alloy 8v on mine.

 

It would be easer to have a one piece prop made would give you more room for the exhaust and you could do away with the bulky centre bearing and mount, iv been quoted £70 for one.

Edited November 19, 2009 by thirdtimelucky

[iamjackiechan 0]

this is sounding pretty good so far.

 

has anyone got any pictures of the 405 rear running gear fitted to a 205 so i can get an idea of how it

mounts.

 

thanks for the replies

 

will

[philfingers 5]

problem is the transfer box, it doesn't take much abuse or much more power than standard. This is the achilles heel really of the 405 4x4 system

[M@tt 77]

this is the 405 4x4 beam that i'll be fitting to my dimma

 

[Baz 421]

problem is the transfer box, it doesn't take much abuse or much more power than standard. This is the achilles heel really of the 405 4x4 system

 

Exactly. Hence the reason the plans i had for the very same thing were canned about 5yrs ago unfortunately.

 

Unless you get holf of a T16 running gear (405 obviously) as they're stronger, i personally wouldn't bother unless standard-ish power is adequate for you.

 

Otherwise, something like Ford MTX75 running gear would be a more viable, and certainly stronger option.

 

Why do i have serious Deja-Vu...

[thirdtimelucky 3]

A 4wd 205 conversion is more of a technical achievement than a performance upgrade, the weakness of the transfer box does limit your power options although Im aiming for 250bhp+ and I expect Mat will be after the same, time will tell I suppose. You can upgrade the internals if you've got plenty of cash. There are 405 t16's out there with over 300bhp on a standard transfer box and thats a much heaver car. The conversion does obviously take some of the "205ness" away but not as much as using ford running gear. If you get the setup right the grip and handling is inexpressive but up against a fwd 205 with the same power and sorted suspension it probably wouldnt be any quicker on the track with the extra weight and drag of the 4wd running gear, again time will tell.