My Mi16 Keeps Cutting Out...

[Cloverleaf 1]

On track yesterday my Mi16 cut out twice.

 

The first time it cut out and then jumped back in to life, then about 200yds later cut out. Straight away, no missfire, just dead. This was after about 10 minutes on track. It then turns over and over with no hint of firing. Got towed off track, get back to the pits and then it starts and runs fine. Can't get it to cut out while stationary, wiggled all the wires, checked all the connections etc and can't find anything. Just runs fine!

 

Second time it cut out in the same place on the track (coincidence?) but after less than 1 lap. This was probably about 15 minutes after the first time (time taken to scratch head in the pits). After getting it towed again, it then restarted again straight away once back in the paddock. I then retired for the day out of embarrassment!

 

Thinking back to my last track day (about a year ago), which was the last time the car was used, I had a few similar instances but it only ever died for a fraction of a seccond (and I was below 1/4 of a tank of fuel so thought it might be that). This time I had over 3/4 of a tank.

 

I need cure this once and for all because I can't afford to use the track for development and the car isn't road legal!

[paul205mi16 4]

On my 1.9mi16 I had exact same problem which after weeks of cutting now and then it turned out to be the green fuel relay, I changed for one fron another car and made sure the pins are making good contact and had no more cutting out problems since (touch wood)

Simple fix..

Paul.

[Cloverleaf 1]

Cheers mate, that's something to try. I've got a few of my own ideas too but don't want to put them into other peoples heads as I don't want to overlook anything.

 

Any other ideas gratefully received.

 

Thanks,

 

Joe

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

O/T but from something I noticed on facebook, were you at Cadwell yesterday with a lad named Ben Ady? I went to Uni with him a good few years ago now.

[Cloverleaf 1]

I was indeed mate. Small world isn't it. He's a good mate from work.

 

Now tell me what's wrong with my car!!

[large 33]

I had something like this happen to me. It turned out to be the CAS.

[Cloverleaf 1]

Anyone ever had any temperature related problems with either a coil or the ignition amplifier??

[boombang 2]

Had an ignition amp that used to get seriously hot (as in couldn't touch it).

 

Swapped that and my misfire went.

 

The other time I had a misfire, it was a loose battery connection

[Cloverleaf 1]

That's the thing, it seems heat related, as it just takes 5 or so minutes after cutting out and then all is fine again. The ignition amplifier doesn't even feel warm really - it's still on the factory aluminium heat sink.

 

The coil feels much warmer, and is mounted in the standard place on the inlet manifold.

[kyepan 291]

Mine uses to do something similar. It would cut out over bumps and then spring bac

k to life aheqrr beat later. If your fuel pump and injector relays are on the original connector blocks you may also have that problem. Wiggling the terminals in the back of the block repeated the issue. Find those relays and check them first. Secondly if the connector block termimls are corroded when everything heats up resistance may get too high and cause poor connection. We rewired both relays using insulated. Spade connectors. depending on how the car was stored may also determine the amount. Of corrosion to electronic connection s or if anything furry has nested and eaten your loom.

Edited November 15, 2009 by kyepan

[Cloverleaf 1]

Suggestions so far include:

- CAS

- Fuel peump relay (twice)

- Ignition amplifier

 

I thought it may be the case that no one would be able to pinpoint it to one particular component. Seems I'm going to have to replace all of the above to be sure......

 

Wiggling wires doesn't seem to recreate it, however, I didn't wiggle the fuel relay wires are they are still in the original plastic box on the inner wing.

[GLPoomobile 958]

When mine was doing this, it was a loose switched live within the under-dash brown plug. It could have been easily over looked by wiggling the wires in my case, as you literally has to get the wire in the exact mm perfect position for it to break contact.

 

Being able to check components with a multimeter when it happens will help a lot, as you can narrow down the search rather than replace bits willy nilly. You might find it sparking but not injecting, or vice versa, or it could be a complete voltage loss etc. I narrowed mine down as I knew I had no voltage at the relays first of all, and the next time it happened I found I had no voltage at the coil. Looking at the wiring diagram the switched live went to the coil and then from there on to the relays, so I knew it was switched live problem.

[Cloverleaf 1]

Thanks, I'll add the brown multi-plug onto the list of things to check too. Trouble is I can't seem to be able to repeat the problem off track!

[kyepan 291]

relays are cheap as chips and you may find a couple spare on the fuse board.

 

also when it won't start it might be worth doing the following checks.

 

1) does it spark? take of king lead from coil touch to cam cover, turn over watch for spark.

2) does it have fuel? listen for the pump when you turn it over, it should whine, or bridge the two fat wires on the fuel pump relay with a wire, and see if it starts. (nb for diagnostics only, not a permenant fix otherwise if you shunt the fuel pump will keep going and spray fuel everywhere)

 

 

j

[Cloverleaf 1]

You're right, I just need it to do it when I can take the bonnet off and do some checks before it fixes itself again!

 

I'm going to get some prices for some replacement parts as mose of the above are old and it's always good to have a spare for a track car anyway.

 

I'm also thinking of wiring the engine loom into a seperate fuse box on the dash and then in the future doing the same thing for another fuse box for the lights etc. Overtime I'd like to remove the messy standard fusebox and all the unused wiring anyway.

 

Thanks for your replies.

[gav_mi16 0]

Ive not read all there replies,so apologies if already mensioned.

 

I had a similar problem, engine would cut out and not restart for 15-20minutes,turned out to be worn spark leads, one was particulary bad.

[Cloverleaf 1]

That's one I've not had before, I haven't changed them so worth a go. Thanks.

[Jon_Bmw 13]

Just to add to the list that will end up at three pages before you know it;

 

We had a strange one once. Basically as the engine heated up, the camshaft gets hotter and hotter and we had a small burn on the rotor arm that was invisible unless you had taken it off. As the engine got hotter, it would somehow cause some interference and the thing would NOT restart until it cooled down.

 

It is extremely unlikely to be your problem, but it is worth a quick check. Because we visually inspected the 'important bits' the problem evaded us for AGES!

 

Other options that, haven't been mentioned, fail when they get hot are the coil.

[Cloverleaf 1]

I've never thought of the rotor arm to be honest. I've never replaced that since I got the engine so it's probably about time, along with the plugs and leads too. The list is getting pretty long now....al least I have somewhere to start

[Veero 1]

I've had a similar thing lately, engine would get warm, 10 minutes away from home and it would just stop, revs would die. Sometimes it would restart instantly and then cut out again. Others it wouldn't restart until it had actually cooled for about 10 minutes. Either way it always worked again. One particular time I took an old ignition amp, it cut out so I changed it and it fired immediately. However it then cut out with the same ignition amp next journey. So got a new crank sensor and a new ignition amp and that seemed to sort it.

 

In the meantime I had replaced coil, cap, arm, leads and plugs. Now (touch wood) it seems to be ok. The problem I think is that it could be any single item on that list or a combo, or indeed like Mr GLP found, simply a loose connection in one of the multiplugs which creates a similar fault as described here. I think the only way to be certain is to buy the load of bits, drive around and each time replace a new part when it cuts out. Maybe if you sort it before you replace everything you could take the excess bits back. But if you haven't change d few things like the arm since getting the engine then maybe that would be a good port of call first.

[Cloverleaf 1]

You've hit the nail on the head mate. Trouble is it's not road legal so makes it that much more difficult. Did you get all your new bits from Pug? Because they're really expensive aren't they? Ignition amp is something like £95 etc

Edited November 18, 2009 by Cloverleaf

[Veero 1]

No, only the crank sensor came from spark plugs, leads, cap and arm were from GSF, ignition amp was from my local factors and coil came from ECP. I think it all came to about £230 IIRC. I see what you mean about making it difficult my insurance and MOT runs out tomorrow and I'm not actually 100% sure if I have fixed it or not. Tough decision time.

 

I only changed the plugs and leads as they were new when I did my engine conversion 12k miles ago so they definitely needed doing, cap looked OK but had carbon on the centre pin, rotor looked OK too but I figured if I had changed everything else might as well get a new cap.

 

Amp was about £35, cap ~£28, rotor ~£22, crank sensor ~£65, plugs ~£12, leads ~£35 and coil ~£35 too. Orders over £50 were free next day delivery from ECP and GSF. Pug wanted £99+ vat for a dizzy cap. Bollocks to that.

[Cloverleaf 1]

Thanks for the info. Think I'll go get a load of quotes from different places, my local motor place always asks for the reg...think I need to find the picture of a 1.9 Mi16 somewhere....