(probably) Simple Starting Problem

[kilauea 7]

I'm putting my 1.9 8v back together after a head rebuild. I was struggling to get it to fire because of lack of spark, which I diagnosed down to the dizzy signal cable to the ign amp. Having fixed that it still won't start but the symptoms might be obvious to someone...

 

If I disconnect the signal cable from the dizzy, it turns over fine for as long as you want, but just won't start (obviously). It spins smooth with no signs of valve/piston contact, as it does by hand too.

 

If I connect the cable it turns over maybe once and then stops dead.

 

My guess is that this is somehow timing related, but being my first I'm not sure. Any ideas as to what may cause this anyone?

 

Ta'.

[kilauea 7]

Just to add something is firing because there is some exhaust gas coming out of the manifold (its not tightened to the downpipe yet).

I tried cleaning the plugs off in case it was flooded and it seems to turn a bit, creates some gas but doesn't kick in.

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Sounds like the timing is out to me.

[Galifrey 1]

Sounds like the timing is out to me.

 

Yes, either too far advanced, or the ignition leads are incorrectly fitted

[kilauea 7]

O.K - just removed all the plugs again and cleaned them up and disconnected the injectors. Wouldn't start, but turned over without coughing to a halt as before.

 

Then I connected the injectors and tried again - It seemed to start very briefly, then coughed - backfired (I shat myself!) and died again.

 

So, assuming it is timing - what I have done is rotate the engine by hand to make sure cam and crank line up (bolts go in the timing holes at the right places). I span the engine until no.1 cylinder was at top (checked using a plastic tie down the plug hole) and then fitted the dizzy so that it lined up with some marks I made before the head came off.

 

Anything else I should try?

[boombang 2]

The plug leads the right way round?

[craig_007 1]

Plug leads or ignition timing,If it's turning a few times and then stopping I would go with ignition timing.

 

Try turning the distributer anti clockwise and the starting and halting will disappear.

[kilauea 7]

I'm pretty sure the leads are on right as I didn't remove them from the dizzy when I took it off.

In order to check its firing correctly do I need to find tdc for cylinder 1, then remove the dizzy cap and make sure the arms is hitting the right contact? then trace the leads from the others?

 

I will try just adjusting the dizzy round a few degrees first and see.. thanks for the suggestions.

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Get someone to help you, get them to crank it over on the starter whilst you manually swing the dizzy body. You will soon know when it have moved it the right way as the engine will be much more willing to fire up.

[kilauea 7]

No luck so far. Checked leads were on correct and that the rotor arm had just passed the contact to cylinder 1.

Tried lots of different settings with the dizzy position. Left the battery to charge, will have another look tomorrow.

[craig_007 1]

Is it possible that your cam timing is out 180 degrees ?

[kilauea 7]

Is it possible that your cam timing is out 180 degrees ?

 

Maybe, the engines been stripped down. how would I tell?

[craig_007 1]

Get cylinders 1&4 up tp tdc,remove the rocker cover and remove distributor cap.Now if piston 1 is at tdc the inlet valve for cylinder 1 should be just starting to open,Now go and see where the rotor arm is pointing,It should be pointing towards plug lead number 4.

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

possible you've put the dizzy back on 180 degrees out?

[kilauea 7]

possible you've put the dizzy back on 180 degrees out?

 

I wasn't sure that was possible - it only seems to fit one way?

It certainly looks the same as the photo I took of it before I took it off.

 

I will try craigs suggestion and see how that looks. Frustratingly close to hearing it fire up for the first time in 7 months...

[craig_007 1]

I'm pretty sure you can't put dizzy on the wrong way,The locating slot is angled from what I recall.

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

Well I've had it, first 205 I got although not running had the dizzy on back to front.

[kilauea 7]

Maybe different dizzy types? The locating slots seem to be off-set on mine, so I only think it will go on one way.

Saying that, if there was any way of putting it on wrong, I'd bloody well manage it.

[kilauea 7]

Arses. I was lining the crank dowel wrong.

 

Praying my (new) valves aren't bent but I realise my chances are slim having turned it over quite few times.

I'm surprised that turning it over by hand didn't give cause for alarm - no sign of contact or odd noises at all.

 

I've put it back on correctly and will give it another go when I got my fecking tensioner fixed. I really am ready to firebomb the whole thing now

[kilauea 7]

Scratch that - timing was correct, it just needed another 360 degrees on the crank. Regardless I have taken the belt off and timed it back up with crank and cam. Checked plug leads are in the right order. Checked the plugs to the sad and the dizzy signal. AFM is plugged in fine. I've replaced ignition amp and coil.

 

Still won't start. Plugs black after trying too if that makes any difference.

 

Any ideas to try? It's really getting me down now. I'm spending my annual leave here trying to get it going and it's not happening.

If it's not going by the weekend it will sold as a non-runner or stripped for parts as I can't afford it any more time and money.

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

Disconnect all the injectors. Give it a squirt of easystart and see if it will fire then. If it DOES, then the ignition is OK and you have some fuel problem (either under fuel OR over fuel).

 

If it DOES NOT; then it is an ignition problem.

[CosKev 16]

If your sure you have got spark/fuel and timing right it might need towing down the road to start it

 

Had to tow mine after engine rebuild to get it going.

 

The starter can't quite spin the engine over fast enough,whereas tow it and let the clutch up in 2nd gear and it will fire it round

 

My m8's have had to do it to to various cars after decoking heads etc

[kilauea 7]

Just had missus dad looking at it (ex mechanical engineer). He couldn't figure it out but reckons it sounds like timing.

Checked over everything again with him but nothing.

 

I might try with the easy start tomorrow, although right now I just want rid of it. It's making me miserable, which is kind of not the point.

[CosKev 16]

Just tow it down the road and bump start

[kilauea 7]

Just tow it down the road and bump start

 

I might tow it down the road and burn it out.

 

I'll have to arrange to do this, do you seriously think that's all it is? The starter seems to crank it over pretty well and the battery is fully charged.

 

I can't help but think I have cocked something up putting it back together. I should never have attempted it.