Wiring In Megasquirt

[Lewis205mi 1]

Ive been looking into getting an aftermarket ecu for my 1.9 mi16 , there is a company near me that supply megasquirt so it would be the best bet for me as there the closest people with a rolling road.

 

Im not an electrition but i have a basic understanding of electrics and would like to have a go at wiring it in, i want the car to run mappable fuel and wasted spark ignition. Do i just have to find out what each pin on the original motonic ecu plug does and wire into the correct pin on the plug supplied with the ecu and is there alot of extra wiring involved with using a 106 coil pack? Thanks

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

The theory of re-using the original wiring loom is a good idea, but in practise you'll find there are that many changes and extra bits needed, that it is easier just to start again from scratch. (I've wired in a few aftermarket ECU's now).

 

As for MegaSquirt, I've frankly heard some horror stories, so personally considering the price some places are knocking them out at, I'd be looking for a second hand Emerald/DTA etc.

[Lewis205mi 1]

Will an emerald be compatible with the standard pug sensors? Where could i get an already labelled loom to start again with and are these expensive? Thanks

[Tom Fenton 1,541]

You can re use the water temp and crank position sensor, the only one you will need to add is an air temp sensor and a throttle position sensor.

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

Or use an internal MAP sensor .

[Anthony 1,002]

As Tom says, a 405 Mi16 loom isn't ideal for converting, and to be honest, they're fairly sought after intact so you'd probably be better of selling it (especially if it's ready-converted)

 

405 1.8/2.0 8v injection looms are the best ones that I've found for converting if you don't want to scratch build, as they have all the right connectors as standard, and are long enough to allow you to keep the ECU in the standard location under the dash, rather than in the engine bay like 306's etc. I've made a couple of Emerald looms using these 405 donor looms, and they are spot on - even have the bonus that you could, in theory atleast, use the Haynes manual wiring diagram to troubleshoot as the numbers/colours still largely match up.

 

The best way however, without doubt, is to scratch build a new loom using new connectors etc, although the costs do tend to add up pretty quickly up doing it that way.

 

Or use an internal MAP sensor .

Pretty sure that you still need a TPS though, as whilst it doesn't use the TPS for primary load when you have a MAP sensor, it does use it for accel enrichment and overrun fuel cut AFAIK

[hcmini1989 16]

Ive been looking into getting an aftermarket ecu for my 1.9 mi16 , there is a company near me that supply megasquirt so it would be the best bet for me as there the closest people with a rolling road.

 

Im not an electrition but i have a basic understanding of electrics and would like to have a go at wiring it in, i want the car to run mappable fuel and wasted spark ignition. Do i just have to find out what each pin on the original motonic ecu plug does and wire into the correct pin on the plug supplied with the ecu and is there alot of extra wiring involved with using a 106 coil pack? Thanks

is it m tech your planning on going to .as for a loom buy yourself a ready made loom from diyautotune then just add your connectors fairly simple .all you will have to do then is sort a fuse box out and if its a ready built megasquirt you should be ok .i was speaking to my local rolling road and they wont touch homebuilt jobby`s he said he`s had to much hassle with them.

[Lewis205mi 1]

is it m tech your planning on going to .as for a loom buy yourself a ready made loom from diyautotune then just add your connectors fairly simple .all you will have to do then is sort a fuse box out and if its a ready built megasquirt you should be ok .i was speaking to my local rolling road and they wont touch homebuilt jobby`s he said he`s had to much hassle with them.

 

I was going to get a pre built ecu from m tech and use them for mapping, they offer a fitting service aswell but id rather save the money and have a go at doing it myself. Do you wire all the sensors up via the fuse box? sorry if im being a bit vague ive never done this before so i just want to make sure i no what i have to do. Thanks

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

Pretty sure that you still need a TPS though, as whilst it doesn't use the TPS for primary load when you have a MAP sensor, it does use it for accel enrichment and overrun fuel cut AFAIK

I've used it without any form of TPS and it ran fine, in a boosted application though.

 

 

Here's a short summary of what's TPS required for (or not):

 

http://www.vintagewatercooleds.com/tech/Te...hrottlebody.htm

 

 

Overrun fuel cut reacts to throttle shut in the same way a dump valve would - instant vacuum .

 

But I found out that, on a turbo engine, it does a great job of cooling down piston crowns, if left to inject fuel during overrun.

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

I was going to get a pre built ecu from m tech and use them for mapping, they offer a fitting service aswell but id rather save the money and have a go at doing it myself. Do you wire all the sensors up via the fuse box? sorry if im being a bit vague ive never done this before so i just want to make sure i no what i have to do. Thanks

Nope, it's actually very simple:

 

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

I agree too that IF you're going to build your own loom from scratch - which is the best option - then start with a DIYAutotune.com loom. It can already come with the DB37 Megasquirt (MS) connector fitted.

 

But, can I add that the route for MS can be riddled with problems.

 

The point is that MS is a complete DIY affair, from start to finish, which can include learning and homework, construction, loom making, installation and mapping. Very few pro places will touch MS, and I think you've even mentioned it. And trouble shooting can be difficult too because of all of the different ways people will go about their DIY project.

 

Just because you can get a pre-built ECU, it doesn't change the other potential difficulties.

 

The MS info is out there, heaps of it, and loads of support too, but you must decide if you really want to go down the MS route.

 

You will certainly benefit from the whole learning experience, but if this is only about saving money, then trust the people on here (including me) who've been down this route.

 

If you choose MS then do it for the whole learning experience and see it through to the end.

 

If you just want an ECU and loom and to get your car running then I too would recommend a new or second hand Omex, DTA, KMS or Emerald ECU and know that the person who's going to map it for you is experienced with that type of ECU.

Edited November 11, 2009 by DrSarty

[Lewis205mi 1]

I think il wait until funds allow an emerald at least then i can get together all the info and extra things needed, ive had a look at there web site and some of the features look pretty impressive.

I noticed that they can supplya Flying lead loom on ECU plug - open ends for sensors is this what i should use to start again with?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks

[hcmini1989 16]

i would advise you not buying an m tech one .just have a look around at there reputation .it`s not brilliant .if your going to buy one get a pre built one from phil ringwood or james murray . that way if you get really stuck they can help you out.and there about half the price of m tech`s ones and better built .allso you will be well over 1k after you`ve finished buying it and mapping it with m tech .if you have the money to buy an m tech ecu.get on ebay and get your self an omex 500 for the same money + most places will map it

[mtechmatt 2]

i would advise you not buying an m tech one .just have a look around at there reputation .it`s not brilliant .if your going to buy one get a pre built one from phil ringwood or james murray . that way if you get really stuck they can help you out.and there about half the price of m tech`s ones and better built .allso you will be well over 1k after you`ve finished buying it and mapping it with m tech .if you have the money to buy an m tech ecu.get on ebay and get your self an omex 500 for the same money + most places will map it

 

Thats all very interesting...

 

In this post:

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=109496

 

You say how you have just bought one?!?!?

 

You also say how James Murray etc is better built, and how they can help.

 

Neither actually have a telephone number to call for help, nor do they regularly fit and tune them. They are also not built to ISO9001, which ours are! You have one, open it up, does it look poorly built?

 

And its over £1,000 to have it mapped? We charge £250 for mapping, so how you came to this conclusion is baffling.

 

An Omex 600 fitted and mapped (by tourqe of the devil), is £1600+VAT. Expect to pay £1500 ANYWHERE to have an ECU supplied fitted and mapped. We supply fit and map our V4 (latest ECU) for £995+VAT Thats a drive in, drive away service that cannot be beaten.

 

Just thought I would clarify for others really!

 

Cheers,

Matt

[hcmini1989 16]

Thats all very interesting...

 

In this post:

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=109496

 

You say how you have just bought one?!?!?

 

You also say how James Murray etc is better built, and how they can help.

 

Neither actually have a telephone number to call for help, nor do they regularly fit and tune them. They are also not built to ISO9001, which ours are! You have one, open it up, does it look poorly built?

 

And its over £1,000 to have it mapped? We charge £250 for mapping, so how you came to this conclusion is baffling.

 

An Omex 600 fitted and mapped (by tourqe of the devil), is £1600+VAT. Expect to pay £1500 ANYWHERE to have an ECU supplied fitted and mapped. We supply fit and map our V4 (latest ECU) for £995+VATs a drive in, drive away service that cannot be beaten.

 

Just thought I would clarify for others really!

Cheers,

Matt

ok not a problem .how much an hour is it to map. and how many hours does it take averidgely then for say a 106 gti on itb`s .and as i said earlier look around on other forums you have a very bad reputraion .but you already know that . and why are your lot band from msefi.com .

 

i was allso told on mesfi.com to steer well clear as your ecu`s were poorly built so did a bit off research and there were cases off the ecu `s being faulty (badly put together)

 

as for your v3 ecu the one i bought was knackerd. im not saying it had`nt been fiddled with by someone else .but it seems there`s a few that have had similar problems .now replaced with a brand new megasquirt v3 by the way.

 

allso how come you can brand the m tech v3 as your own when its really a megasquirt under the cover

 

cant really say that james murray fits them or tunes them but he does have a phone number you can get him on. and has offerd to talk me through the instalation.and any problems i get stuck with.the same can be said for phil ringwood

 

but to be fair you cant beat that price for the v4 and as for value for money the v4 is still cheaper than most other ecu`s.

Edited December 2, 2009 by hcmini1989

[welshpug 1,655]

how come you can brand the m tech v3 as your own when its really a megasquirt under the cover

 

 

very easily, they're not the only one either.

[Galifrey 1]

And its over £1,000 to have it mapped? We charge £250 for mapping, so how you came to this conclusion is baffling.

 

 

Just thought I would clarify for others really!

 

Cheers,

Matt

 

allso you will be well over 1k after you`ve finished buying it and mapping it with m tech

 

If you read, he says over £1000 to buy and map, which fits with your figures of £995+vat, so seems spot on, he just left out the fit bit, but he never said only map.

 

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

Sorry to hijack but I'm also looking into going the Megasquirt route. I know it will be difficult, but comparing 200 USD delivered for a kit to 400 quid for a second hand omex or emerald I'm willing to put myself through the potential trouble.

 

I need injection (bike bodies), wasted spark, o2 feedback for closed loop, shift light and maybe launch control and knock sensing. I've tried going over the documentation, but i keep opening quick links on new terms in new tabs and I end up with 30 open tabs and completely confused. I've understood that MS1 pcb v3 should suffice with the ms spark and extra code.

 

Could someone help me with a shopping list of what I'll need and where is the best place to buy them?

 

Also I'm a bit confused about how launch control would work considering the throttle bodies are cable operated.

 

Another thing would be about the O2 sensor, i don't know how they operate so I don't know if they can be driven and interface directly with the Megasquirt or if I need a controller of some sort.

 

I need to do this on a budget as I'm also building a house and money is tight, but I don't want to make false economies that will end up costing more in the long term. The last idea might contradict itself with the idea of Megasquirt and I have considered the advice given previously in the thread to go with Emerald or Omex, but I've been looking out for these on ebay and forums for the last few weeks and they rarely show up and the price tag is twice that of the MS and since there are success stories with MS I'm confident I can make it work.

 

Thanks in advance,

Andrei

[cybernck 402 1 Cars]

All the things you mention, such as wasted spark, launch control, knock sensing, shift light etc are modifications

that you need to do on a basic MS1 with MS'n'S code. Wasted spark mod only requires an adittion of one VB921

transistor for ignition and some internal jumping on the board, while other may need a more compex mods or

even an additional small unit (check the modifications/addons section on msefi.com).

 

It has got an input for a narrow band O2 or a wideband one using a controller with a 0-5v output (such as VEMS).

If you want to drive the WBO2 sensor directly, then I'm afraid it's another modification for you to carry out.

 

The beauty of MS is that it's so cheap and expandable, however, that is the main culprit as well, as you need to

know what you're doing (as you'll end up doing it all yourself). There are some ready assembled Megasquirts

that have all the mods you mentioned integrated already, but they're everything but cheap .

 

p.s. From what I remember, launch control works via ignition, not throttle. Launch control is simply a rev-limiter

moved down to say 4000 rpm, allowing you to keep full throttle on launch and until you get moving. Perhaps

you're thinking of a fully-fledged traction control?

 

Hope this helps .

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

I agree too that IF you're going to build your own loom from scratch - which is the best option - then start with a DIYAutotune.com loom. It can already come with the DB37 Megasquirt (MS) connector fitted.

 

But, can I add that the route for MS can be riddled with problems.

 

The point is that MS is a complete DIY affair, from start to finish, which can include learning and homework, construction, loom making, installation and mapping. Very few pro places will touch MS, and I think you've even mentioned it. And trouble shooting can be difficult too because of all of the different ways people will go about their DIY project.

 

Just because you can get a pre-built ECU, it doesn't change the other potential difficulties.

 

The MS info is out there, heaps of it, and loads of support too, but you must decide if you really want to go down the MS route.

 

You will certainly benefit from the whole learning experience, but if this is only about saving money, then trust the people on here (including me) who've been down this route.

 

If you choose MS then do it for the whole learning experience and see it through to the end.

 

If you just want an ECU and loom and to get your car running then I too would recommend a new or second hand Omex, DTA, KMS or Emerald ECU and know that the person who's going to map it for you is experienced with that type of ECU.

 

This man speaks sense!

 

I built my MS squirt from scratch, and built everything. Its not hard, all the information is out there, it just takes time to work throught it all. Yes I made mistakes, but worked through them.

 

Its not something you should try and bang out in a weekend...

 

Mad.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

This man speaks sense!

 

I built my MS squirt from scratch, and built everything. Its not hard, all the information is out there, it just takes time to work throught it all. Yes I made mistakes, but worked through them.

 

Its not something you should try and bang out in a weekend...

 

Mad.

 

 

i concur, i started out with ms a couple of years ago and still havent got it running right.

 

its not something you should be doing just for the cheapness of it as dr s said, if you love your cars and love knowing how they work and love having a hand in its creation then go for ms....if not buy a plug and play and off you go.

 

tbh i am still waaay over my head but i've started now and have no intention of giving up

 

good luck with whatever you choose

 

pete

[madspikes 41 1 Cars]

i concur, i started out with ms a couple of years ago and still havent got it running right.

 

its not something you should be doing just for the cheapness of it as dr s said, if you love your cars and love knowing how they work and love having a hand in its creation then go for ms....if not buy a plug and play and off you go.

 

tbh i am still waaay over my head but i've started now and have no intention of giving up

 

good luck with whatever you choose

 

pete

 

Good to hear, your not giving up! My car is up and running, done nearly 1500 miles in it now, but its by no means finished! Every trip to work and back I log the data, then tweak the map in the evening. The sub 4000rpm fueling is there now.

 

Mad.

[pugpete1108 62 1 Cars]

Good to hear, your not giving up! My car is up and running, done nearly 1500 miles in it now, but its by no means finished! Every trip to work and back I log the data, then tweak the map in the evening. The sub 4000rpm fueling is there now.

 

Mad.

 

no chance in me giving up , i wish i could do that but as the car has no mot i cant drive it on the road to get a proper tune on it.

 

i may have to bite the bullet and get it mapped local on a rr.

 

have you got any tips for tuning? what do you use? mstweak ?

 

what should i be looking for in the logs? all i see is wiggly lines

 

sorry to hijack op.

[unariciflocos 49 1 Cars]

Thanks for the answers. The one thing I don't understand is why I need a 140 quid lambda controller and why can't the MS drive and read the sensor itself. There's a lot of functionality in that controller that will never be used and surely there must be some circuitry for the sensor to interface directly with the MS.

 

I'm willing to have a go at building the thing myself, because as said above it will give me a far better understanding of how the ECU and the engine works, especially during the tuning process. I am an automation engineer and most of my colleagues are electrical engineers so I'm sure if I get stuck I can turn to someone for help, so as I said I am confident I can get it to work.

 

have you got any tips for tuning? what do you use? mstweak ?

 

what should i be looking for in the logs? all i see is wiggly lines laugh.gif

 

Well I guess the most important wiggly line you should be looking at is the AFR as that will give you the best indication of what is happening in your engine.

Here's something I read in an older thread here on the forum:

 

Just one other thing, when im setting up my afr i normally use these

 

Idle- 12-13:1 depending on cams

Light load up to about 1/3 throttle- 13-13.8:1

Max load 12.6:1 sometimes a little bit lower, and lower for turbo/supercharged engines

Cruising- 14.7 -15:1

 

I dont normally run any leaner on cruising, 14.7 is what they say is optimum but up to 15 is ok,

and i normally say that full throttle should be 12.6 -12:1 everywhere in the rev range after about 3000rpm,

You really should have max fuel to make max torque and max hp

normally if you get max fuel correct, the rest sort of just works,

then just set the idle and part load mixtures

 

lean cruising -> light load -> max load/power <-------leaner / richer------->

15:1-14.7:1 -> 14.7:1-13:1 -> 12.6:1-12:1 15:1------------12:1

 

No idea how you tune ignition advance or other bits, still have loads to read before i have a crack at it. But I assume you've raed this guide because there are explanations of every wiggly line and examples at the end.

Edited December 4, 2009 by unariciflocos

[mtechmatt 2]

The older V3 images you find of our ECUs are all actually of the same single unit that Mr Ringwood decided to bash around the web.

 

We have had numorous others ECUs from other supplier with issues but we don't believe slander will get us anywhere. As for features etc, you're right on the V4, fully loaded, surface mount factory ISO9001 assembled ECU with more features and for less money than pretty much nay other ECU out there.

 

As for fitting and mapping etc, we map for £45/hour, but we do offer a £250+VAT full mapping service for which we will map the car regardless of time taken until you are happy with the vehicles performance.

 

We were the FIRST company (some 5 years ago now) to supply fully built MS ECUs, we made MS accessable to people who didnt want to have to solder them ptgether, or find out what and where to place a VB921 IGBT etc. The MS guys simply didnt like it, as we took an educational product and made it a functional one.

 

With over 1,200 M-Tech built V3's in circulation today, its no surprise that there is 1 or 2 that are burnt out from poor installation practices. We offer a 2 year no hassle warranty, so its always amusing to see people moaning about an ECU without even contacting us to have it fixed for free! (We wouldnt offer a warranty unless we were conifdent in the ECUs)

 

What was actually wrong with yours? Why did you not contact the supplier (M-Tech was written on the case, tap it into google, we're not hard to locate!)

 

We are also the only MS fitting only Dyno centre in the country, so we can always offer help based on experience, not forum talk...

 

Hope that calrifies stuff.

 

Could of been worse, could of just renamed the company, but that would confuse the 1000's of happy customers, and maybe delude the 1 or 2 unhappy ones....

 

If you know of any, please forward them my contact details...

 

Cheers,

Matt