Suspension Gurus Please Help !

[shed_racing 0]

Good evening all,

 

Must be the season for newbies to buy an old gti and then pester you guys for help ! I blame seasonal adjustment disorder personally . . .

 

Right - to business.

 

Bought a 1991 (G-plate) 205 1.6 GTi recently from a man more slippery than an greased eel. (don't ask). When I got it home and started the process of a general service, I noticed a couple of things that needed doing, and since then, it's been my mission to sort out the noises eminating from the front. I've searched the various fora, and have yet to nail the problem down.

 

In summary,

- When I got it home, I went to change the gearbox oil (easier than I thought - there was hardly any in there ) so filled it with what I had (75/80) for a few days, then drained and added the correct Haynes spec

- changed the oil, filter, plugs, leads (OE Peugeot - ouch) and rotor arm / dizzy cap.

- STILL a graunching, grumbling noise from front when turning, and grumbling noise at speed

- looked through the paperwork, and it's had a new n/s driveshaft and bearing, and both new lower arms and drop links all less than 10000 miles ago.

- replaced the o/s driveshaft last weekend ( as I assumed it was either that, or the interm. bearing) and the wheel bearing fell apart into my lap ! packed it full if grease and put it carefully back together; waiting for a replacement.

 

Now, whilst the rumbling noise has reduced somewhat, it's still particularly evident at motorway speeds. "Must be that bearing" I hear you cry, but this is the bit that really confuses me;

Took it to a car park, and whilst driving on full lock (either direction) if you dip the clutch, the noise goes; re-engage the clutch, and the noise comes back.

 

It sounds like a cv joint kinda noise, but they're all very recent.

 

Aside from that I'm loving the little thing !

 

Has anyone experienced anything like this ?

 

Could it be the bottom engine mount ? diff ? !!!

 

PLEASE help, as my girlfriend is giving it the "told you it was a shed" and I hate it when shes right

[swordfish210 20]

Clutch thrust bearing would be my guess. It's common for them to go before the clutch has worn out, or if the clutch has gone in the past it's not unheard of that a garage will just change the friction plate and leave the other parts in service to save money.

[shed_racing 0]

Clutch thrust bearing would be my guess. It's common for them to go before the clutch has worn out, or if the clutch has gone in the past it's not unheard of that a garage will just change the friction plate and leave the other parts in service to save money.

 

 

AHA ! Thanks for the prompt reply

 

is this likely to transmit bearing-type judder through to the steering wheeel ? It's not violent, like when the roadwheel balance or tracking is out, but you can def. feel it . . .

[swordfish210 20]

I would say the grumbling in the steering is the dodgy wheel bearing. Get that changed then do the release bearing.

[shed_racing 0]

I would say the grumbling in the steering is the dodgy wheel bearing. Get that changed then do the release bearing.

 

Durrr - of course ! Thanks very much Swordfish - wheel bearing this weekend, clutch bearing next.

 

Would it be worth whacking a new clutch on, whilst it's in bits ? From your earlier post, sounds like one is maybe due (there's no mention of a clutch on the scant paperwork I have with it).

 

Is there anything else I should replace while the 'box is off ? Input shaft seal maybe ?

 

Thanks for your patience.

[Tom Fenton 1,540]

Clutch release bearings if they are u/s will make a horrible noise when you press the clutch down, so I doubt it is that. I would change your duff wheel bearing first off. Then go from there.

[shed_racing 0]

Thanks Tom; No - this is the opposite; noisy when the clutch is off, quiet when the clutch is depressed.

 

As I say, just seems strange that the knocking noise on full lock goes away when the clutch is operating . . . .

[Tom Fenton 1,540]

So from your description it is something that is quiet when there is no drive transmitted to it. So, wheel bearing, driveshaft, diff bearings or gearbox input shaft bearing.

[swordfish210 20]

Only reason i said that is because the thrust bearing went on my old AX. It made one hell of a racket with the clutch up but as soon as you depressed the clutch the noise went away. I changed the bearing (clutch was fine, nearly new infact) and the noise was no more.

 

My theory behind it was that when the clutch was up the balls were knocking around inside the bearing case on the worn surfaces but with the clutch dperessed the bearing became compressed and the balls were forced against the casing, causing the noise to lower due to the reduction in slop in the bearing.

 

The same thing happened on my friends old Astra. Noise with the clutch up and it went away with the clutch depressed, he changed the clutch and the bearing and the noise dissapeared.

[shed_racing 0]

That's exactly it Tom - quiet when clutch in, noisy when clutch out.

 

My first thought was the driveshafts; as I say, the easy one had been changed before I got the car, and I did the (slightly) more difficult one last weekend, hanging my hopes on either the intermediate bearing or one of the CV joints on the driver's side.

 

The hub fell off (!) when I was replacing the drivshaft, so I re-packed the bearing and put it all back together and ordered a new bearing for this weekend's garage escapde.

 

The fact that there was literally only a dribble that came out when I first went to change the gearbox oil (and I have no idea how long Mr. Slippery was driving it like that) leads me to suspect the diff - I SO hope it's not . . . once I replaced the oil I checked in case there was a leak, and have been checking regularly: nothing, so I can't understand why there was none in it when I first got it.

 

I drove it back from the vendor like it, quite carefully, but that was about 60 miles.

 

Is that likely to have killed the diff ?

[shed_racing 0]

Thanks swordfish - point taken.

 

I'll do the wheel bearing and see if the low-pitched rumble goes.

 

maybe I'm attributing two causes to only one problem; wheel bearing causeing the rumbling, and clutch bearing causing the knocking.

 

When your AX bearing went, did it sound like a CV joint faliure, can you rmember ? This is quite a deliberate clunking, rather than a metallic screech. (I suspect that my interpretation and translation of the various noises my car makes is not helping very much)

[swordfish210 20]

No it was a generic bearing grumble. If there is a cluking i would check the diff, jack the car up and rotate a wheel. It should be nice and smooth but if it is clunking/grumbling then that will probably be the culprit.

[philfingers 5]

looks like you hit the nail on the head

"When I got it home, I went to change the gearbox oil (easier than I thought - there was hardly any in there ) "

 

The diff and it's bearings are mostly lower than the input shaft, so I'd put my money on it being the box.

I have a box on ebay at the moment but it's more or less sold to Johnny on here, subject to us meeting up at the w/e.

If you need a diff and good bearings I have one but it's a bit of a trek from you

 

Boxes are easy enough come by, I'd go for a known good box if your going to change the clutch anyway

 

You could get the front up on stands and get the engine running in gear and see if you can figure out where the noise is coming from- just be careful!

[shed_racing 0]

Thanks Phil - I'll do the wheel bearing then while it's up in the air, I'll try and ascertain where the noise is coming from. Would engaging a gear then spinning a wheel by hand highlight the diff, do you think, or would I need it runnng ?

 

Thanks for the offer, and yes, Angola may be a bit of a trek (Halesowen is fine, though !) To be honest, I've never had a gearbox / diff apart before, so am a bit reluctant to give it a go . . wouldn't know where to start !

 

One last question, then, before I stop wasting everyone's good efforts and get on with the wheel bearing - it's an early '89 model, so am I likely to have a BE1 or a BE3 'box ? is there an easily discernable and externally visible difference, apart form the code (which coincidentally is hidden under a thin layer of grime, I hope) ?

[Baz 421]

If it's early '89, probably a be1, if you have a Lift-up collar for the reverse lockout, then yes it is!

 

Also, might be worth changing the driveshafts oil seals and ball joint pinch bolts while you're there for nice new ones. (Shameless plug! )

 

I'm fairly local to you, and have a hoard of parts including gearboxes etc, feel free to give me a shout if needs be.

[philfingers 5]

you're welcome to come up to me but Baz is much closer and probably has more pug bits lying around for 205s than peugeot themselves these days.

shed_racing:- Drop me a PM with an email address (preferably not a hotmail one due to att restrictions) and I'll drop you some docs and useful stuff over,

 

Phil

[shed_racing 0]

Thanks gents - didn't realise Daz was in Sawbridgeworth and it sounds as if he's got all manner of suitable bits, too !

 

Did the shaft seal when I put the new shaft in, and dropped a new pinch bolt in for good measure.

 

Ahhh - reverse is located under 5th, with no lift collar, so does this mean a BE3 ?

 

Really sorry, but the only email I have is a hotmail one; I'll pm it anyway - would appreciate any advice you can proffer, as I'm floundering at the mo !

 

Cheers.

[shed_racing 0]

Thanks Phil - PM sent

[Galifrey 1]

Thanks gents - didn't realise Daz was in Sawbridgeworth

 

Daz will sort your whites, but you may need Baz for 205 bits!

 

[shed_racing 0]

That'll teach me for attempting covert forum operations during worktime . . . ham-fisted typing is the direct result. Take note boys and girls !

 

Apologies, BAZ

 

Ideal - upset the nearest fella in the uk that can help you . . . Still, at least me shirts are clean.

[Baz 421]

No worries!

[shed_racing 0]

Evening all,

 

Right - Here's how the story ends . . (just because when I've thread-searched for things, I've found a few "is it this ?" or "is it that ?" threads, and quite a few people don't finish the tale, so you never get to see if the advice gleaned cured the problem or not. Also, to thank the people that took the time to answer )

 

Wheel bearing on (Blimey - you didn't tell me that was going to be such an arseache !! ) and I also changed the strut top cap bearings and manky old doughnuts to boot (seeing as I was under there) - all after sacrificing a reasonable amount of blood to the car gods, as is invariably the case.

 

UPDATE: Noise and vibrations significantly reduced, to the point of almost going, so thanks all for the advice and tips.

 

Diff still playing up (?) and knocking noise on full lock still there. May call upon the advice and ear of Baz at some point in the future.

 

Aside from that, gave it a B Road blat on the way back from London village today, and got homee grinning. Almost made the skinned knuckles and chilled kidneys from yesterday all worthwhile.

 

Thanks again gents. Have a fun week ! (Just clocked the "Counrtyfile Weather" for the week - may all your jobs be indoors . . . Brrrr)