[race_prep] Guernsey Hillclimb 205 Build

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Here's a pic of the 96mm crank, you'll see from the red arrow the old ring gear that needs to be removed and the arm (dont know technical words) needs to be machined to match the rest and then lightened as much as possible then balanced.

 

 

[wracing 19]

why does it have to be removed, surely you can machine the teeth off the gear, then lighten and balance as normal. seams like extra work and cost to be honest.

 

No point redesigning the wheel.

 

James

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Just thinking about weight reduction really, allow it rev quicker with less mass to turn

[wracing 19]

Difficult to see from the picture, im making assumptions, but for the crank to be balanced and matched across all 4 assemblies (pistons, rods) so by removing material from the geared balance would make it to light and unmatchable, if you can see what im trying to get at.

 

How are you planning on balancing the rotating assembly? statically?

 

James

[Sandy 191]

Oh right ok thanks Sandy, i know your too busy for a full build but any chance you can lend some hours on a crank in the next 2 weeks!?

Just no way I'm afraid, I'm seriously snowed for about 6 weeks.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Difficult to see from the picture, im making assumptions, but for the crank to be balanced and matched across all 4 assemblies (pistons, rods) so by removing material from the geared balance would make it to light and unmatchable, if you can see what im trying to get at.

 

How are you planning on balancing the rotating assembly? statically?

 

James

 

yeh I see what your saying, it's already balanced to the other 3 so removing material would unbalance, however I am definitely no machinist or have any idea on balancing so I really can't comment, was just going onwhat QEP told me!

 

Simon

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

200bhp is nothing for a 1.9, 8v, That figure was good around 15 years but your looking at 230ish now from a good build which doesn;t have to cost the earth either, Have a word with Mass or a decent engine builder, Another one is Brett Simm's in New Milton

 

Is that ex-Longman Brett?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Engine being collected tomorrow, all im being charged is £560 for the 87mm JE Pistons made to spec and £120 for the block bore.

 

Now to send the crank away when it arrives, think im going to use Mass.

 

Here's also the first draft of my brand new wiring loom, even though its a race car with only brake lights and indicators and not on management i never knew there was still so much wiring, its looks so busy!!

 

Please review and let me know any mistakes or better ways to wire something (im an accountant by day so im quite impressed with myself on this so far)

 

I thought it might be very useful for others wanting to build a new loom for a race 205 on carbs.

 

Edited June 8, 2010 by wardy18

[Dj_mini 7]

Take it you dont run an alternator? How long does the bat last with out one ie running time?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

No alternator this year, havent tried it yet as i had the slight "off", should be fine though as the jump plug is inside the car behind my seat and i have a large Deep Cell Jump Battery to plug in while while driving on the roads and also when starting for my run up the hillclimb.

 

Bought myself a brand new Odyssey Extreme Racing 40 Battery, very powerful and quite big but only 12.5kg, have a look at the spec online

[Sandy 191]

I can't remember if you're on Carbs Simon, but as general advice.... with mapped injection, you need to be careful about running without an alternator because of the affect the changing voltage has on the map values. Voltage compensation helps (on ECUs that have it) but does not eradicate the problem.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Im on Webbers for the moment yes, once i have this engine up and running properly my next move is TB's with management but this wont be for a year yet, when this does come around i will certainly fit an alternator back.

 

I did see a very nice track 205 at my recent visit to Brands Hatch that had a alternator fitted which i would say was a 1/3rd the size of a standard one, cant remember for the life of me what it was from but this is what i would like to do.

 

Also i need to look into brackets for the alternator, as i am using the 205 Diesel XUD9 block which had the big diesel pump on the front also acting as the alternator top bracket and the suspension globe pump on the bottom also acting as the bottom mount i cant use any of the std mounts.

 

Also with having the engine at QEP for 6 months i couldnt look at it to measure up any possibilities from other engines, but i think the XUD7 lower may work, ill have to look into it all again.

 

Thanks for the advice though Sandy, much appreciated!!

 

I assume my wiring loom looks ok then as there has been no critics as yet........?!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Engines back today!

 

I would like to get the shell bearings ordered before I send the crank off for machining!

 

I never done this before so could anyone tell me who best to order them from and how I go about measuring? Excited to learn all this!!

 

I need mains, big ends and small ends!

 

I'm running the 405 2.2hdi crank along with s16 rods and custom 87mm JE pistons, the pistons have comes with all rings and gudgeon pins however, may just be my inexperience, but the gudgeon pin that came with the pistons is very very loose within the small end of the rods?? They come with circlips so I assume the gudgeon pin floats in the small end and pistons and is secured with the circlips but is there any bushes of shell bearings which go in the small ends!!

 

Please teach me as I'd love to understand this!

 

Regards

 

Simon

[welshpug 1,661]

how loose do you call loose?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Sloppy loose, I'll measure if required but from memory say approx 1-2mm

 

what exactly are small ends, do they consist of shells like the big ends, I've never ever pulled pistons from rods, only ever built rods with pistons already fitted onto the fitted crank!

[welshpug 1,661]

I'd call 1-2mm the wrong bloody size!

 

some pug rods have bushes in the small ends, others are an interference fit, RFY rods are bushed, sounds like you need new bushes made up to suit the new pins.

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Machine or Polish crank then order bearing's, Never the other way around, For Alt's have a look at Brize in Kent

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Alts????

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Just looking at the spec, pin diameter is 22mm and if I'm right s16 smal end is 24mm?? Can this be rectified with bushes as said above? Where do I go for these??

[welshpug 1,661]

I believe the RFY small end is 22mm, Servicebox states the circlip is 22mm, it shares the circlip with the ES9

[wracing 19]

s16 small end is 22mm with a 152mm rod length. off the top of my head the rods are bushed as standard.

 

Just to confirm it is normal to see play side to side along the pin (crank located rods), but if the rod is able to move away from 90 degrees reference the piston top then there is an issue as there should be a nice fit between the pin and the rod bush.

 

Edit: s16 rods small end 22mm 152mm rod length and 53.7mm big end

 

 

James

Edited June 11, 2010 by wracing

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Something definitely astray here then, have I read somewhere that some iron block s16 is 23mm small end!

 

I'll go measure rod length, small end and big end sizes so I can identify these rods

[welshpug 1,661]

I just popped a circlip off an RFY piston, the pin is indeed 23mm, so apologies for my post earlier.

 

The 1.6+1.9 8 valve and 1.9 MI16 are 22mm, as is the XU7.

 

sounds like you need your rods bushed.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Thanks for clearing up welshpug, I have just sat with a vernier and a rod and got the following:

 

Rod length - 152mm

Small end dia - 22.98mm

Big end dia - 53.72mm

Small end width - 19.14mm

Big end width - 24.14mm

 

confirms what you said!

 

Where do I source small end bushes from and how precise measurements do I request them at, ie pin dia 22 so what ID bush size eg 22.10mm or exactly 22mm for a tight fit?? And the same for the OD??

 

Thanks for all the info, great help

[welshpug 1,661]

I'm not sure where exactly, but most likely to be a race engine builder or a good machine shop.

 

I know Sandy has done it before but don't know if he got someone else to do it for him.