[race_prep] Guernsey Hillclimb 205 Build

[Cameron 16]

We used one on our Formula Student car, or tried to. Unfortunately the guy who ordered it clearly didn't understand what a Watt was as this thing got the sump to about 0.5deg above room temperature.

 

They're a cool idea, although you'd be better off using it on the oil tank than the sump.

Edited March 31, 2011 by Cameron

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

I think they sound a good idea to even use on the oil tank of a Dry Sump set up, pre heating oil can only be a good thing?!?

[tri_longer 25]

Is the plan to put it on a timer overnight or take a genny to the event with you?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

The company has just confirmed that using a 125watt heater pad with a 4x15cm area in a sump holding approx 4 ltrs of oil will not over heat the oil to boiling point at any stage.

 

Here's the reply i just got from them:

 

Simon, provided you install only one 125 watt heater and the engine has aprox. 4 liters of oil, you can not overheat the oil. A larger heater will cause overheating and will damage the oil.

 

Please ask as many questions as you like.

 

David

 

Im happy with that

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Is the plan to put it on a timer overnight or take a genny to the event with you?

 

Its just for the first start of the day at home before i leave the garage tbh, during the day i have a run every hour so i feel the oil will retain enough heat between runs, its just the first start of the day that concerns me and because i live on a clos i cant really sit there with the engine on idle for 15mins at 7am on a Bank Holiday morning....This heater pad will dramatically cut down this idle time before its safe to drive away for the first time, im saying completely cut out but cut down the idle time waiting for things to get to temperature.

 

Yes would be on a timer to come on say 2 hours before i need to leave.

[brumster 135 1 Cars]

I thought Pace had discontinued the Pug dry sump kit; is that cobblers?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

I thought Pace had discontinued the Pug dry sump kit; is that cobblers?

 

Urm must be yeh, i just spoke to Spoox and they can supply me a kit no problem, im looking at 1200 to 1300 for the full system (which is excluding VAT for me being a Guern ) so now i just need to find that cash!! Time to get making some more GRP parts to sell i think

 

An intertesting fact of the day - Speaking to Mass Racing yesterday they said that the Pace system was orginally developed and supplied by Mass Racing back in the day and then Pace took on the design to sell their own similar system to this day however Mass felt the demand for them on the XU engines had diminished some what so stopped production of the kit (unfortunately for me)!!

[Cameron 16]

Well, think about it this way: a 125W heater is basically 2 domestic light bulbs and although they kick out a bit of heat, it's certainly not enough to boil 4l of oil! An electric kettle (used to boil what, 1.5L tops?) is around 2000W!!

 

Personally I don't believe you could ever get a self adhesive heater pad powerful enough to boil the oil. The power rating goes up to 1000W but that's for a very large surface area, so you'd need a big old sump first! Then with that extra surface area will come a larger volume of oil to heat, basically it's not going to happen, so don't worry about it.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Well, think about it this way: a 125W heater is basically 2 domestic light bulbs and although they kick out a bit of heat, it's certainly not enough to boil 4l of oil! An electric kettle (used to boil what, 1.5L tops?) is around 2000W!!

 

Personally I don't believe you could ever get a self adhesive heater pad powerful enough to boil the oil. The power rating goes up to 1000W but that's for a very large surface area, so you'd need a big old sump first! Then with that extra surface area will come a larger volume of oil to heat, basically it's not going to happen, so don't worry about it.

 

Thanks Cameron, great bit of technical info and should put any concerns at rest.

 

If anyone else wants one then i can go for a group buy..........?? They have already offerred me free delivery if i send them pictures of one fitted to my race engine!!!!

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Not bad figures but still a little off my Mates 1950 ish engine with 240bhp but that has a Carbon Inlet manifold and was very reliable in the day, It's been on the shelf for a while thou and ran a wet sump again another engine by Mass when they had there main XU man there.

 

Why not go direct to Pace, Save a few ££

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Ive heard 240bhp 8v are a pure myth.........

 

Yeh that was my next step to go straight to Pace, Spoox had a concern with my long stroke not clearing the baffles in the dry sump but surely i could just use a XU9 ally block spacer plate!!

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Afraid not, I will say this was his best engine and the others he had in the day where all around 230 bhp, again all done on a engine Dyno and not a RR. The inlet manifold is a work of art.

Hopefully I might get him to use them again sometime.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Mass said that in he could tell by 6500rpm the head was at it's limit with regards to air/fuel intake volume capabilities hence the peak bhp of 224.7! So yeh it would take something very special and alot of time developing an intake manifold and chamber flowing to get to 240bhp, something which only a select few have the advantages off without spending an apsolute fortune for just a few extra ponies!!

 

I need to get hold a new exhaust manifold with bigger ports which will release a couple of extra bhp, currently my head exhaust ports are 36mm and my exhaust ports are also 36mm, Mass recommended the ideal set up is to have a 1.5mm step out into the exhaust ports so I need a manifold with ports of 39mm, something I'm looking into, sure it would release a couple of extra bhp!!

[welshpug 1,661]

if it sounds like this then it's all good

 

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Mmm yes seen that a while back, very nice on throttle not so nice on idle though however that's exactly how Mass warned me mine would be like, under 1400rpm my fillings better be well secured in my mouth!!

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Yes the budget was allot, even the inlet manifold was a fortune and the head just about looks like a XU head as the ports are very different now

 

But that should do well but not having read all of the project are you using 4 or 8 injectors or was it the carb;s from a post age's ago

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Just the 4 injectors, Pico 330cc! Carbs are long gone now

 

Never really looked into the 8 injector system, didn't think it would be worth it on an 8v

[welshpug 1,661]

the number of valves has nothing to do with it!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Yes but my thinking was that there is only so much air/fuel mixture that the BV 8v head can pump in hence the bhp drop off at 6200rpm ish and so add more volume of fuel by a second set of injectors would just be surplus to requirements? Please correct me if I'm wrong!!

 

Not sure if my inlet manifold by Colin has the fixings for a second set!!

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

where abouts are the injectors, as the further out they are (Bell mouths) you should see around a 10% gain over say the std Jenvey position

[Cameron 16]

The thing with extra injectors isn't about putting in even more fuel, you get way better mixing at high rpm by having the intectors further away, so make more power through a more efficient burn. You have a set near the valves for low-rpm so that the fuel doesn't get deposited in the inlet, and a set out by the bellmouths for high rpm so the fuel has a longer time to mix with the air.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

I have no idea unfortunately, I haven't yet seen the engine completed and Colin made me the inlet for the XU10 head an sent it straight on with the head after Mark reworked the ports! I'll have a measure of the inlet whe it arrives

 

The injectors mount in the Jenvey ITB's yeh?? So your saying the longer the inlet tract length the better?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Thanks for the insight Cameron, that makes sense of 8 injectors, wish I'd thought of that at the start of the ITB build now!! A bit late now as I can't afford for anymore work to be done on the engine with regards to both money and time, maybe something to look into in the future, will mention it to Mass and see what they think!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

So I assume the set near the valves would be extra 2nd set mounted in the inlet manifold and the set for high rpm come in the ITB's as normal??

[Cameron 16]

You'd run a set in the standard location, up by the head, then a set out in front of the bellmouths squirting down into the inlet runners.