[race_prep] Guernsey Hillclimb 205 Build

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Must say im glad I have had these 2 weeks off work as I have been flat out on the car, had a sudden thought last night that I am almost 100% happy and finished with this build.

 

I have re set the front wheels camber this afternoon by adjusting the rose jointed wishbones so that my adjustable top mounts can both be adjusted from a minimum camber of Neg 0.5deg to Neg 1.5deg, this should give me a good range of adjustment.

 

With the old Spax suspension being hard to adjust only with movement of the wishbones and having the driveshafts cv's limiting adjustment plus the LH damper being bent after a hit with the wall a few years back the old camber settings were about -1.4deg one side and -1.9deg the other.

 

I do need to check the caster now however but need to invest in a caster angle measurer and what angle is optimum. Any ideas?

[alexcrosse 124]

I am impressed with the starter itself just have a few teething problems to iron out

 

lol - very good.

[Dj_mini 7]

I had exactly the same problems with mine when it was new 2 years ago so they know this is a problem luckily brise deal with ttv regulary so i managed to get a new fly wheel for free!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Why did you need a new flywheel, did you not realise it wasn't meshing enough and chewing your flywheel teeth up?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

For anyone interested I have worked with Brise to make a new front for the 205 starter motor so that the drive gear and flywheel mesh properly, they are sending me a new revised front (for free) to test and report back, the difference I found between standard and Brise offsets was 1.63mm so quite substantial when the flywheel teeth are only say approx 4mm deep!!

 

Also quite concerned about the rear gaz dampers, they have a large black bump stop which the spax didn't, with this in place I only actually have about 15mm of travel so even round a light corner it will be sat on this bump stop...... Might have to get stanley out and cut em down!!

Edited August 3, 2012 by wardy18

[Batfink 201]

This is one reason why on a 106 I am helping develop some suspension for we are using 3 way dampers. This moves a number of the internals out of the damper unit and allows more piston movement.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Sound expensive, however if it's not the gaz damper bump stops it's the damn trailing arm bump stops!! Should really raise the rear end as its maybe a little low but christ don't the back end have some grip so I'm keeping as is for now!!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Replacement starter front received today and yet another failure to chalk up for my starter motor issues!!

 

Don't think Brise took much notice of the measurements I sent them as they now have 2.45mm TOO MUCH offset as opposed to the. 1.63mm TOO LITTLE on the original unit!!

Edited August 4, 2012 by wardy18

[Batfink 201]

Sound expensive, however if it's not the gaz damper bump stops it's the damn trailing arm bump stops!! Should really raise the rear end as its maybe a little low but christ don't the back end have some grip so I'm keeping as is for now!!

 

I cut these down on my car without issue. Really they are there to protect the chassis so smaller ones should be fine

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Ah ok thanks for letting me know, so just thinking, if the dampers have bump stops are the bumps stops on the chassis for the trailing arm still required?

[welshpug 1,661]

yes, they prevent the wheels from going too far forwards and fouling on the bodywork.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Makes sense thanks

[Dj_mini 7]

Why did you need a new flywheel, did you not realise it wasn't meshing enough and chewing your flywheel teeth up?

 

Mine was meshing with the flywheel but not by enough so when i had the box off i noticed the teeth had started to deform on the flywheel

I sent it back to have a new gear fitted and had a new flywheel its been fine since.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

That's good then, really hoping to get mine sorted once and for all this week once spoken and broken the news to Brise in the morning.

 

Really need to get hold of Sandy and Colin tomorrow too but haven't been able to contact them for a few days, anyone any ideas?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

 

 

I cut these down on my car without issue. Really they are there to protect the chassis so smaller ones should be fine

 

One more thing on the Gaz rears, did yours come with any dust covers at all?? All that's covering any part of the strut is the bump stop which I'm about to cut down considerably so will have a large amount of the strut open to the under car elements??

[Cameron 16]

Don't worry about cutting down the bump stop, it's more of a spring aid. The Gaz Golds don't come with dust covers, they're meant for track / race so should be kept a lot cleaner than road use parts. I wouldn't worry about it too much!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Don't worry about cutting down the bump stop, it's more of a spring aid. The Gaz Golds don't come with dust covers, they're meant for track / race so should be kept a lot cleaner than road use parts. I wouldn't worry about it too much!

 

But surely if the suspension hits these bumps stops then it will have an effect on the damping ability of the damper!?!?

[welshpug 1,661]

yup, slows them down before the arms actually smack into the bumpstops, guess it saves them having to do anything expensive with the valving inside so they actually work properly

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

So the question is, do i actually cut them down or not, currently i have very minimal travel on the damper before it hits them!!

 

Think i'll leave them as it for now and see how the ass end handles saturday!!

[Cameron 16]

NO! Don't cut them down!

 

Gaz aren't retards, they're on there as a spring aid. It adds some progression to the spring rate, have a look at the end closest to the damper body and you'll see it's got a long taper on it; the first 20mm or so of bumper travel is very soft.

Edited August 8, 2012 by Cameron

[MattCoggins 3]

The bump stop is there to stop the shim pack inside the damper bottoming out inside the shock and damaging in full compression. In my experience bump stops are too big and can be cut down, BUT... I am talking MR2 stuff here (only just moved to 205s..). If you strip your coilovers down you will probably find that the piston/rod can travel all the way down into the shock body, way past were all the spring would coil bind.

 

We had a very similar problem with a friends MR2 MK1 race car. We have to run standard shock absorbers for the race series, but you can fit "inserts". Everyone runs KYB inserts, my mate did, with the bump stops in and lowering springs. When on the ground the car had around 5mm of travel before the bump stop. We striped everything down as it wasnt handling correctly, chucked the bump stops in the bin as the KYB would compress right down into its self (to the point where there was virtually no shiny polished rod left showing, just thread for the top nut) and he jumped up the grid! As the suspension compresses onto the bump stop the spring rate will go through the roof causing more handling problems.

 

I personally would see how much travel you have at the mo, see if the shock will compress right the way in and either chop the bump stop or bin it, and maybe ring Gaz if your not happy, or Dave Ainsworth at Dampertech (he knows his Gaz related stuff as he is a dealer).

 

I can only go on experience from other cars and there suspension configurations and my knowledge working on race and rally cars professionally. Ive no idea about 205 stuff yet as I havent messed about with them.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Thanks for the info guys, the front coilovers aren't the problem as i now have 50mm of travel on 300lb springs whereas before i had 20mm travel on 275lb springs.

 

Its the rear dampers that i have the issues with, travel consists of about 10mm with such a large bump stop, like you said i might contact Gaz and query how much travel into the damper body the strut can go, to be honest though i only have about 10mm of travel between my already cut down chassis bump stop and the trailing arm but like said previously it doesn't seem to affect the rear end handling as its superb and on rails!!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Oh and finally i have the Brise starter sorted, it took 3 fronts to be machined but we finally got there in the end, can finally make use of the Brise starter and i cant believe that the little L-ion battery can start the car no problem with the Brise starter which it couldn't even attempt to do with the standard starter, happy days!!

 

All i have on the TO DO list now for the car really is to set up Launch Control on the DTA and to make a Carbon Fibre undertray, not as big and bulky etc at the ally one i previously made and removed but just 2 big flat sheets to go either side of the exhaust front to back purely to smooth out the underside and reduce that 33% drag from the belly of the car!!

[Cameron 16]

Honestly, I don't know what you're worried about!

 

I ran mine with the jounce bumper touching the damper body, in fact compressed by some 5mm or so at ride height, and had absolutely no issues. The damper is some 40mm long, but the first 20-30mm of this is incredibly soft and progressive - as I said it's a spring aid, not a bump stop! It's certainly a LOT more progressive than your standard 205 jounce bumpers are, I wouldn't be surprised if your travel limitation was caused by these instead.. but more likely it's just caused by running high rear spring rates.

[EdCherry 34 1 Cars]

As Cameron said, from the gaz *shudder* dampers I have seen its a pretty long and progressive bumpstop. Running on them is not always a bad thing unless they give rapid increase and there is barely any travel like my AST rears.