[race_prep] Guernsey Hillclimb 205 Build

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

I HAVE A PROBLEM

 

I have had a constant oil leak which turns out to be the sump gasket, I have checked all the sump bolts and they were barely tight to 10nm, Haynes manual torque setting says 20nm for the ally block so I have tried tightening to that and it just doesn't happen, put in a longer bolt to try and still the same just won't do up to 20nm just keeps turning and turning and then the bolt snapped WTF luckily it didn't snap in half and was still attached so came out fine.

 

Why can't I do up my sump bolts to even 15nm and why does it feel like Im bolting them into soup not iron and then they snap??

 

My next stage it to remove the sump and get rid of the gasket altogether and just use some RTV Silicone sealant and just locktite them in and tighten to 10-15nm.

 

Am loosing my mind!!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Ok have removed the gasket and used RTV silicone gasket so we'll see if it's sealed tomorrow as I'll give it 24 hrs to set

[black lad 0]

Some more:

That engine is a work of art!!..best of luck wit the car

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Thanks mate much appreciated, really want to get the car 100% so I can really get some good time behind the wheel. First event a week tomorrow, will get pics, videos and results.

[Cameron 16]

RTV should fix it, but if it doesn't you should make sure it isn't something like a blocked breather. I had my sump off 3 times to try and sort a leak that turned out to be coming from the large breather hose as the hose from that to the catch tank had kinked.

[Anthony 1,003]

I have had a constant oil leak which turns out to be the sump gasket, I have checked all the sump bolts and they were barely tight to 10nm, Haynes manual torque setting says 20nm for the ally block so I have tried tightening to that and it just doesn't happen, put in a longer bolt to try and still the same just won't do up to 20nm just keeps turning and turning and then the bolt snapped WTF luckily it didn't snap in half and was still attached so came out fine.

Be VERY careful just blindly putting in longer bolts, as you'll potentially cause damage to the block if you do that on some of the holes (most notably the two underneath the flywheel end crank seal)

 

If the bolts won't torque up, check that you're actually using the right ones as they're an M7 thread from memory which is comparitively unusual, and if the bolts are right, it's probably the threads in the block are stripped/worn. 20Nm is hardly anything torque wise - pretty much just lightly nipped up - so if they won't tighten to that then something's amiss IMO.

 

Oh, and make sure your torque wrench is known accurate!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Mass is sending me a set of 20mm long M7x1 bolts which I have confirmed in Peugeot Service Box is the right thread size. I think the main issue is that the bolts had only 11mm of thread and taking into account the cast sump thickness plus the gasket totalling approx 6mm that only left 5mm of thread to anchor into the block, thats not alot.

 

When I convert to dry sump In a couple weeks I will try the longer bolts without the sump to determine the thread depth in the block to make sure they don't bottom out.

 

The 2 bolts under the crank seal on the gearbox end are hex bolts and 20mm long already so these tighten up fine so I will leave these alone.

 

I will try my best to get them all to 20nm with the dry sump but having a Peugeot cap head snap on me before it got to 20nm is a concern.

 

Mass is going to test the strength of the bolts they send me by torqueing one up until it snaps so I know how strong they are.

[Cameron 16]

Be VERY careful just blindly putting in longer bolts, as you'll potentially cause damage to the block if you do that on some of the holes (most notably the two underneath the flywheel end crank seal)

 

I actually managed to crack a small part of my block because one of the blind holes had a plug of old RTV in the bottom.

[petert 591]

I thought the M7 sump bolts were only 15Nm. I use ThreeBond 1211. It's a much better product and cleans off far easier than RTV. As said, you need to make sure that the holes are clean and of course engaged thread is sufficient, or not too much. It's possible to hit the bottom of blind hole when mixing/matching sumps and bolts from different models.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Possibly, i was only going by the haynes manual for the Ally block being 20nm which are also M7x1 but may be different for the Iron blocks.

 

When i convert to Dry sump i will clean out all of the threads and pre test the new sump bolts to ensure the legth is correct before torqueing them in. I have run out of my RTV stuff now so ill get some of that Threebond 1211 to seal the dry sump with.

 

When i drop the sump off and fit the new dry sump im going to have to buy more oil as the wet sump runs 3.5 to 4 ltrs but the dry sump tank will tank 7 ltrs, to save me money on the oil and as the current oil has only had about 2 hrs MAX of run time mostly idle making sure its running right i waqs going to buy a new 5 ltr can of Mobil 1 and top up the rest with the old oil, 5 ltr can of Mobil 1 is £50. is this a good idea or not???

[Liquid_106 97 1 Cars]

Sorry, can't comment on you reusing oil, but isn't there an Opie oil club discount?

Might save some ££s?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Stil need to ship it over to Guernsey though which won't be cheap!!

[tri_longer 25]

I can't say that I have a technical answer, but if you want an opinion then I would re-use the oil. For how little use it has had I can't see it being an issue.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Thats my opinion too, 5 ltrs of new and 2 ltrs of hardly used should be ok!!

 

Have just ordered my Dry Sump with Mark, he said the sump pans came in lunch time today so that was good timing. Will now order all my fittings and pipework from Demon Tweeks.

 

I have a 1/4 miles sprint on the 11th June which i wont do unless i have the dry sump fitted so i have from when it arrives to the 11th June to fit it, i cant see it happening but ill keep an open mind for now.

[welshpug 1,662]

depends how well it was running at the time, sitting idling often leads to bore wash which could mean the oil is full of fuel.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

The oil is darker than when it when in as new put it that way.

 

Just dont really want to have to pay £100 for 10ltrs of oil, if you think its the best way then so be it, i dotn want to risk the durability of it and reliability of my engine.

[tri_longer 25]

depends how well it was running at the time, sitting idling often leads to bore wash which could mean the oil is full of fuel.

 

Thats interesting to know. Would you still expect to get this on injection that has been mapped?

[welshpug 1,662]

depends how well it was mapped I guess.

 

Might be a bit of a naive comment here, but why do you need to run oil that costs that much when it needs to be changed so often? surely £20-£25 or so of totals Quartz oil would be suifficient?

 

I know many dealers will do a 20 litre container for about £40!

Edited May 24, 2011 by welshpug

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

I was only going by what Mass Racing told me, they said to run some good quality 10w60 oil like Valvoline, Mobil 1 or Millers (cant remember the others) and it just happened that one of our motor factor places had Mobil 1.

 

I have no idea myself really, just going on what i am being advised.

 

How often should i be looking to change this oil, mileage wise??

 

 

 

ALSO ONTO POWER STEERING

 

I know the norm conversion for rallying etc is a 106 Elec Pump and i have also read somewhere about using Corsa Pumps, i have available to me a Corsa B 1.4i which i assume has an Elec Power Steering Pump, does anyone know if this would do for a 205 conversion??

[Liquid_106 97 1 Cars]

ALSO ONTO POWER STEERING

 

I know the norm conversion for rallying etc is a 106 Elec Pump and i have also read somewhere about using Corsa Pumps, i have available to me a Corsa B 1.4i which i assume has an Elec Power Steering Pump, does anyone know if this would do for a 205 conversion??

Corsa B uses an EPAS column, not a hydroelectric setup like the 106\Saxo, but can be made to fit. There was a recent thread about it on here )

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Well i might have to look into it as i can get a Corsa B EPAS column for nothing, i have the whole car at my disposal for the next few days until its scrapped. Space is getting a little limited in my engine bay for the 106 pump with the 7ltr Oil Tank going in there too!!

 

Will do some investigating into whats involved.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Well my oil leak is still apparent!!!!! FFS WTF

 

Now I have a theory I would like to run by you all to see what you think, whilst on idle I removed my breather cap from the catch tank and there is a suprising amount of air being pumped into that catch tank now I'm wondering if my breather cap is not sufficiently allowing enough breathing air to escape and so creating a slightly presurised block and in turn pushing oil out of the sump/block joint???

 

Whats the possibilities of this happening??

 

Simon

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

What profile is your cam, I know we used all the well known brands of oil and got bad cam Bucket wear, swicthed to a 76 racing oil (Good old USA) and it went to none at all over a 2 year period so I really would give them a call, based in Wereham, Dorset.

[Cameron 16]

It will push it out the breather hose first, that's what mine did! It looked like the sump gasket was leaking but it was actually being pushed through the large breather hose just above the sump, despite it having a jubilee clip on!

 

Your engine will breathe heavily for a little while if it's just been built, it's totally normal, just make sure all the breathers / filters / hoses etc are clear.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

I'll have a look at my crank breather but mine is much higher up with the XUD9 block it is sticking out the block pointing at the starter motor so pretty much level with the top of the gearbox not at the bottom of the block like normal. I'll check this isn't leaking tomorrow. My rocker hose was leaking slightly but tightened the jubilee and leaking no more. If it's not the crank breather then it's definitely the sump!

 

I'm glad I'm goin dry sump after my hillclimb Monday and hopefully be rid of all this hassle an get it all done properly.