[race_prep] Guernsey Hillclimb 205 Build

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

Would someone explain why one rod as opposed to another would need more oil please?

[Anthony 1,002]

As said, they're fragile. I can understand your reasoning for suggesting them, but I wouldn't personally be comfortable using them.

 

For what it's worth, two of the engines that I've seen with exploded pistons showed absolutely no evidence of any previous valve-piston contact (on the three non-exploded ones anyhow - bit hard to tell on the remains of the 4th ) so I don't think that it's purely valve contact that's behind the issue. That said, certainly most cases that I've heard of usually seem to happen not long after a replacement cambelt or a replacement head following a snapped belt, so I'm in no doubt that the clattering they get from valve impact certainly significantly worsens the problem.

 

XU10J4R pistons prehaps? Not sure if the rod length and piston height are the same, but certainly they don't seem to have the same reputation for being cast by Cadburys that the GTi-6 ones do...

 

Would someone explain why one rod as opposed to another would need more oil please?

If you do a search for posts/topics by "Nick" you'll find the thread where CRF450 explains his thinking behind the rod issue, and how swapping over to 8v rods cured the surge issues that Nick had been experiencing previously.

[welshpug 1,655]

they are much the same, just with a pronounced dish right between the valve cutouts instead of the very shallow one of the RFS.

 

DrS, it seems Mi16 big ends are narrower and float on the crank journal, the 8 valve and I think possibly the RFV and RFS engines are much wider and are crank located, i.e the rod floats inside the piston instead of on the crank pin, that's what I have understood of Martin and Nick's findings, still doesn't explain about the oil sitting in the head, but its not the place to discuss it here, as Wardy is using an 8 valve head

Edited November 12, 2009 by welshpug

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Like Rich said though, its not really ideal using 16v pistons in an 8v build due to the valve cutouts surely?!

 

So what other options do i have with a compression height of 33.8 to 34.8mm if i were to go 86mm bore?

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Well it looks like there isnt an 86mm Piston in 8v and with the right Compression height (33.8 - 34.8mm) taht i can get if i decided to stick to the 86mm bore, so either way, 86 or 87mm bore its going to be Custom Pistons so i may aswel spend the £800 on my original plan of 87mm.

 

The XU10 can go up to 88mm bore and ive read that people say to stick to 87mm so they still have a 1mm margin for a re-bore so this is how im thinking rather than, as Tom said, stick to 86mm bore and allow a 2mm re-bore margin.

 

To be honest the bottom line is when Matt comes back to me after evaluating the XUD9 bore walls to see if they have the meat to even go to 87mm like the XU10.

 

Will update as soon as........

 

Simon

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Just looking to order in and buy the tensioners for this build so its all ready to fit when i get the block back

 

Looking at photos of my Mock set up in a previous thread (Rich im sure you'll be glad im still sticking to the 1 thread for all tactic) i had counted the cambelt teeth required and it was approx 115 with slack so the std 205 post '91 114 tooth belt should suit just fine bearing in mind the Mock set up (pictured below) didnt have an Idler Tensioner fitted on the long stretch.

 

 

This just leaves me with the tensioner choices, im looking mainly at the GTi6 set ups and, using service box, have notice that there are 2 main Tensioners which sit above the water pump, one bolts directly to the block and the other bolts via a bracket. Having no experience with these some advice on which one is most affective would be much appreciated. (See pics)

 

INJECTION XU10J4RS UNTIL RPO No. 07608 and SINCE RPO No. 07609 UNTIL RPO No. 08546

 

See Part No 9

 

 

INJECTION XU10J4RS SINCE RPO No. 08547

 

See Part No 9

 

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Can someone please enlighten me as to how exactly the GTi6 Tensioner in the pic below (and in the bottom Service Box diagram above) actually works?!?!?!

 

 

I need to work out if this tensioner is better to use that than the earlier type shown above

[Miles 331 1 Cars]

Use the early one please

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Will do, thank you

[Sandy 191]

Use the early one please

Quite!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Do you think it is wise to put an extra Idler tensioner in the long stretch between crank and cam pulleys, 205's dont and this will be the same set up but i have bolt holes that i can use for one if need be!?

[Sandy 191]

It would reduce whip, might be a good idea.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Thats what i thought and also Cameron advised this, ill get the Tensioner and also source an Idler too

 

Thanks

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

£7.62 for a little Screw column to hold the tensioner............

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

having started my old engine (not removed yet obviously) I found I had a bad missfire (i seem to get plagued with damn missfires in all forms) anyhow it turned that one and only one of my Denso Iridium spark plugs has turned bad and wasn't sparking properly, works fine now with a old std plug in

 

Just enquiring as to what plugs are best to use for competition use only, I fitted a std set of NGK's at one point and the ceramic heat surround had multiple cracks on each plug and fell apart after one event

 

Recommendations please

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

just a quick update as there hasn't been much action on the build lately, I'm currently in Orlando, Florida and have been for 2 1/2 weeks now, on my way here we spent the day in Crawley so I dropped in on Matt at QEP who were more than welcoming (once I finally found the workshop) I have seen all my parts together ready to start the build and have been assured it will be done in time and jus as important Matt is sure the 83mm XUD9 block will go to 87mm bore.

 

Back home on the 4th so I will get going again on the build

 

Have a great new years eve everyone

Rgds

 

Simon

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Now looking into clutches, am chatting to Eeyore who advises a twin plate AP racing clutch, my only concern is that a full racing clutch will be very agressive and with running some very wide soft slicks my driveshafts are going to become a very weak point in the system?!

 

Any suggestions with running this amount of torque and power from experiences?!

[DrSarty 90 1 Cars]

A quality diff and clutch, with healthy torque AND sticky tyres is definitely pushing 1.9 driveshafts to the limit.

 

Garry is regularly having issues with his (supercharged 260bhp GTI6), and I've munched my way through a few, and that's just on road tyres.

 

This is why I'm having (Colin Satchell put) custom 306 driveshafts on mine, to avoid this issue in the future.

 

I think new OE or GKN driveshafts stand up to quite a lot, but remanufactured shafts - even GKNs - are of questionnable quality.

 

The simpy answer is try it and see. Maybe a set will last 2-3 events? Hard locks will certainly eat them quicker.

Edited March 19, 2010 by DrSarty

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

A twin plate clutch would be ideal but this also means changing flywheel, i think my preferred route at the moment as advised by a few guys is a good Helix Cerametallic Paddle Clutch plate and a std clutch cover.

 

What do you think?!

[B1ack_Mi16 67]

You could also have a look at Spec Clutches.

 

http://www.specclutch.com/

 

They have clutch sets for the Mi16, send them an email and ask for torque capacities off the different stages they have.

 

A mate of mine was running a Stage 3+ on his Audi which have some carbon metallic friction plate and it was actually possible to operate the clutch quite progressively and it would hold about 500 Nm. That was 235 mm diameter one though.

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Those Spec Clutches look good, bit of a pain being US though isnt it?!

 

A new idea been sent my way by the guy at PTS Developments is to upgrade my flywheel to say 230 to 250mm and find a standard clutch from say the 2.2HDi 406 to suit (or get the flywheel to suit the clutch i mean) this clutch will be a very high torque clutch due to the diesel 2.2ltr and will also not break the bank everytime i need a replacement clutch due to being a standard unit?!

 

Whats your thoughts, i like this idea as its thinkin outside the box and utilising max potential of std units for with future maintenance in mind, might just have to shell out in the first instance for a light weight flywheel the correct size.

 

?!?!

 

is the 2.2 HDi gearbox shaft still 21 x 18 splines as with the BE3 205 boxes!?

[welshpug 1,655]

2.2 hdi flywheel will not fit inside the bellhousing of a BE3 box.

 

how much torque do you really envisage running though?

[sonofsam 5]

It's actually works out cheaper buying a SPEC clutch from the USA than in does from the UK!

(well for my build anyway)

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

I really don't know expectations for torque which is why I'm asking you guys with experience on what I can get away with clutch wise!

 

I'd love to go the simple route and get a paddle 200mm plate in a std cover on my helix ally flywheel but from what I been told this won't cope!

[wardy18 33 1 Cars]

Choices so far are:

 

200mm Ally Flywheel (already got), Paddle plate £130, std cover

 

215mm Ally TTV GTi6 Flywheel £235, Paddle Plate £155, std cover £not sure

 

230mm std 206 GTi 180 clutch on a custom 230mm Ally/Steel Flywheel £no idea

 

Twin Plate set up, price wise just way out of the question tbh

 

 

Id like to go the 215 route however spending all that money and still not knowing if it will cope is concerning me alot!!

 

 

Any idea or advice greatly received

 

 

(I have emailed Spec Clutches to see what they can do)