[race_prep] Turbo Hill Climb Project

[opticaltrigger 52]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your kind words.

Well it's been a long road to this point and it's one that's still ongoing to but a very great deal has been learned along the way though. For example...the liners.If ever I did another one of thees motors I would only use the ductile ones Westwood's made for us,they were about 80 quid each and worth every penny considering that they were made to order from an original Mahle that we sent up to them as a pattern.

The Megasquirt management has been a joy to work with to. Many say that it's a bit geeky and overly complex as far as goes ECU's but personally I love it. I really like the fact that you can disappear up your own arse in an ocean of interrelated variables if you want to or you can just take the simple approach to it.

 

As for the mistakes. Well there's been a few of those along the way.

But as I mentioned one time. Personally speaking I think you have to be honest about these things or there is no point in doing a build thread on a technical forum like this. Especially when your work is being looked at by very learned folk. And there are plenty of them on here that have lent there invaluable advise over the years.

 

My opinion really is that if you cant admit what went wrong and what didn't work then you really shouldn't make to much noise about what went well. I find that technical forums and in particular race cars are best served where progress is primary and ego is secondary.

 

Anyway, all the very best Mark

O.T.

[opticaltrigger 52]

Went over to see Rich today with the firm intention of checking the valve to piston clearances with a bit of Plasticine. Were looking to get a minimum of around 2 mm's for the exhaust valves and 1.5 mm's for the inlets. If there's not we'll strip it out and take the pistons to the machine shop again and have them notched appropriately.

 

Well anyway it didn't quite go that way in the end, as we noticed that since the removal of the decompression plate from the previous build, the bolt with the thick washer under it now just foul's against the block when you do it up. It's not really a big deal and we'll just shorten that one a bit, but still a pain though... "Ah", the joy's of the dry build.

 

All the best

O.T.

Edited January 10, 2016 by opticaltrigger

[petert 588]

Or make a thicker washer?

[opticaltrigger 52]

Hey Pete,good to hear from you.

I think your rite and ultimately it's what needs to happen then it's a permanent solution from a future serviceability perspective.

For the sake of the current build I'm just going to shorten one though and in the mean time I'll get one spun up ready for when it's needed.

Would be interested to hear any of your thought's on the type of steel I should use for it.The Peugeot ones look like nice stuff to me.

 

All the best

O.T.

Edited January 12, 2016 by opticaltrigger

[petert 588]

Just mild steel. Perfect for the job. Anyone with a lathe could knock one out in 5mins.

[welshpug 1,661]

or just use a standard head bolt washer.

[petert 588]

I think he means the spacer over the water pump.

[dcc 855]

Yeah, just put another standard headbolt washer? No need to make anything really. I think theyre 8mm thick?

[welshpug 1,661]

I have some 3mm thick ones.

[opticaltrigger 52]

Hi dcc / welshpug / Pete,

Thanks for your thoughts on it gents.

I'm going to go and get one spun up though just so that it's one component as a permanent solution for the future.

Going to try again at the weekend to get these piston to valve clearances checked and then we'll know what the measurement should be for the spacer to.

If I can remember to take the camera with me and all goes to plan,I'll take a few pics of the issue,and the clearances marked on the Plasticine hopefully.

 

All the best guy's and thanks again for the input.

O.T.

[opticaltrigger 52]

We had some good news with the engine today as we checked the valve to piston clearances with some Plasticine, and there was loads of room to spare.

As mentioned before, we were looking for a minimum of 2mm on the exhausts and 1.5mm on the inlets. We got around 7mm across both give or take a bit. Loads more than expected but as they say "The Plasticine don't lie."

The bit of Plasticine we used turned out to be only just thick enough for the the valves to leave a slight impression in. Wasn't expecting that...Still,it was enough to measure off.

Shimmed up the valve clearances which I find hideously tedious every time I do it and baring one valve we had exactly the right size shims in stock to get them all spot on.I will call Peugeot in Yeovil tomorrow and order up a 2.9mm shim for it and then that's done to.

It's just taking that cam in and out that I don't like.The studs just aren't long enough to pull it down evenly against the valve springs. I've never seen any but it's almost screaming out for the performance market to supply longer ones really.But I don't know, maybe they are already out there and it's just me that hasn't seen them.

 

The problem with the cylinder head bolt hitting the block was sorted out by shortening one which was easy enough, but I will need to get round to making up a new thicker spacer though.

 

Anyway I did manage to get a few pictures of the offending bolt hitting the block, and of the Plasticine we used for checking the clearances.

All being well we can call the dry build part at an end now and go for a finish build.

 

All the best

O.T.

 

The offending bolt

 

 

Plasticine in the cylinder with a previously crushed gasket.

 

You can see that the Plasticine was only just marked enough to be useful.

 

Plasticine sectioned up for measuring.

 

Edited January 17, 2016 by opticaltrigger

[welshpug 1,661]

ahh you're meant to use a standard washer as well as the tall spacer on that head bolt.

[opticaltrigger 52]

Wow, I never new welshpug. Honestly we've never had one all this time.

 

O.T.

[Anthony 1,003]

You're not the first nor likely to be the last to make that mistake! As said, there should be two spacers on that headbolt - one the same as the other nine plus the large one you've got.

[opticaltrigger 52]

Well, I did not know that gents.

All this time we never had one but it was always ok albeit very close there,before the removal of the decompression plate.

Well that's an even easier fix then and thanks for telling me.I would never have known.

 

Main thing is though that the engine is now ready to go for a finish build, after that's done it'll be time to think about the chassis side of things and getting the engine in it again.

 

All the best and many thanks

O.T.

Edited January 17, 2016 by opticaltrigger

[opticaltrigger 52]

We got a few more bits done on the engine today.

Peugeot delivered the new 2.9 mm shim that we needed to finish the valve clearances and we popped another washer under the offending head bolt from above.

 

I did get a fresh pack of head bolts in as we had previously shortened one but it turned out that a combination of the shortened bolt and another washer was perfect, leaving only two threads poking out of the block above the water pump. I'll send the bolts back and get a credit on them.

The valve clearances are all done now which is great because I really detest doing them, and the best bit is that they all came out spot on in the center of there tolerance.

 

We put the head back on for the final time this build after a good clean of the head, block and liner faces and nipped the head bolts down hand tight for now. We'll tighten them properly when it's back in the chassis.

Next bit now is to dig out the dial gauge and the degree wheel and dial in the cam properly to spec.

I mind doing that job only just a bit less than the valve clearances. But it's equally important and must be done rite.

 

One other thing today and it's a thing that's been bugging me for a while now.

The thing is the rods didn't cost allot really and I've never been totally satisfied that they could be bought for that price and have genuine ARP bolts. So Rich and I were chatting about the conrod bolts and whether or not they are genuine ARP's and decided that for insurance sake we are going to change them for a known genuine set bought from Kent Cams the official UK dealers. It just seems madness to take it on trust.

I know it seems a mad thing to do at this stage but in the grand scheme of things it's only a couple of hours work on the engine stand at this point and it will be much less to worry about at 7000 rpm.

 

Anyway once those bolts get swapped and the cams dialed in that sort of brings the the engine to a finished state really.

The next bit will be to start and deal with the new exhaust manifold for the turbo which is moving from it's current location to round the back of the cylinder head.

I will try to take a few pictures of the finished engine over the next few days.

 

All the best guy's

O.T.

[opticaltrigger 52]

Got some more updates on the engine build today...Some good some not so.

Anyway,The good bits first.

Rich got delivery of a nice new engine stand the other day which just always makes it all much easier, and today we got all the cam timing dialed in properly which is great because that is one more horrible job out of the way.

I don't know about you guy's but personally, that and the valve shims have got to be the two most miserable jobs on the entire engine.

But all the same it's done now and near as can be got it spot on at the specified, fully open @ 112 degrees ATDC. It did take several attempts as these things do when your trying to be very accurate. It's a bit like chasing shadows really.

 

So anyway, got some more ancillaries bolted up all looking pristine and new. (This is the not so bit)

And then as has so many times been the case another problem.

While angle tightening the final stage of the head bolts, just 30 degrees from done, the seventh bolt in the sequence pulled it's thread out of the block. (The one at the back over the flywheel end.)

So now we need to remove the cylinder head again and deal with the stripped thread in the block..................Vomit !!!

If any of you guy's have any experience with the best fix for this then please do let me know,I'm all ears.

Also were thinking, if it's a recoil job is it not sensible to do them all.?

 

Anyway, here's a few photos from earlier today including one showing the ally block thread that came out with the bolt. Oh, and another one of the flywheel that was refaced the other day.

The flywheel was machined down on the friction face and the pressure plate face by equal amounts so as to keep the clamp load the same. You can also see some previous heat marks on it quite clearly to.

 

All the best

O.T.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the offending thread .......................

 

Edited February 7, 2016 by opticaltrigger

[Reebmit 51 4 Cars]

Looking good, well almost... those threads can be a pain..... I think it was a very good move on the rod bolts, just not worth the risk v cost..... am following with interest ☺

[opticaltrigger 52]

Small update on the project.

We got the genuine ARP rod bolts installed over the weekend which feels much better.

It was a very straight forward job really armed with the engine stand.Just turned it upside down and removed the sump.

The two rod bolts under the oil pump were a bit more challenging and required removing the three pump retaining bolts and just moving the pump over a little to get the torque wrench in.

 

After a very close comparison between the genuine bolts and the supplied ones I'm even more convinced now that there not genuine.

There are some very subtle little differences between them.

Anyway there done now which is much better.Just need to re-coil the head bolt threads now.

 

All the best

O.T.

 

[opticaltrigger 52]

Hi again all. Just another small update.

We managed to get all the V coils installed in the block finally today.

They went in easily enough and without issue. We used the 2.5D's at 27 mm long which is absolutely the perfect size for the job.

 

It's another one of those like the Westwood liners, where if I ever did another one of these engines I would recoil every single head bolt thread without question as a matter of course. Considering the relatively low cost of the V coil kit. In retrospect it's madness not to do it when a bock is in pieces and to boot you get an extra 2.5 mm of head bolt thread in the block over the standard 25 mm. As a percentage increase it's not negligible at all. I have come to the thinking that it really should be considered a sensible must when tuning these engines.

 

We haven't torqued them up yet as we didn't have a head gasket to hand. But I'll order one tomorrow and do an update on it when the scary torquing part is done.

Anyway,here's a few pic's of us recoiling the threads earlier today.

 

All the very best

O.T.

 

 

 

 

Used an 11/32" 1/4" drive socket to get down the extra bit the tap wrench couldn't.

 

All done.

[petert 588]

In retrospect it's madness not to do it when a bock is in pieces and to boot you get an extra 2.5 mm of head bolt thread in the block over the standard 25 mm.

 

Couldn't agree more. Especially when you compare the cost of the kit to head bolts. Imagine you've just torqued up six head bolts to 300 degrees and the seventh one pulls! You have to throw away those six other head bolts, fix the pulled thread and start again.

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

Other option is to convert to ARP head studs:

 

 

But that does only pay off after multiple headlifts...

[welshpug 1,661]

not like a set of head bolts is very expensive here.

[welshpug 1,661]

Other option is to convert to ARP head studs:

 

 

But that does only pay off after multiple headlifts...

not at all, if the block threads are weak they still wont help.

[wicked 103 3 Cars]

It could make a slight difference since, the studs are already steady in your block and not turning when you put load on them.

But indeed the threads should be ok as well.

Edited March 22, 2016 by wicked