Upgrading The Original Turbo

[Guest Kidmans]

Hi guys,

 

Curious to know what modifications you have carried out to your turbos if retaining the original manifold?

 

I've just had a bigger compressor wheel fitted to mine, its a little nosier than the OE set up though. Not yet tested properly but seems promising...

[pablo 0]

the standard manifold is terrible looking for flow tho. Might be better replacing it first?

 

how are you with space now? fecking tight down in there.

[Guest Kidmans]

the standard manifold is terrible looking for flow tho. Might be better replacing it first?

 

how are you with space now? fecking tight down in there.

 

 

The manifold is a shocking bit of work. I know a lot of you chaps use this engine in a 205 but mines still in a Xantia The engine is placed quite far back in this installation, so i didnt fancy trying an aftermarket manifold as clearance is really bad.

 

There are only 2 ways to remove the turbo, one is with the head and i've not tried this, or get the engine out, which i have just done!

 

I chose to upgrade the compressor wheel to a T Series Rover (used on Coupe Turbo and Vitesse) as its not huge but quite a bit bigger than original and i didnt want to change the smoothness of the OE set up.

 

I would be interested to know if anyone has come across cracked exhaust manifolds on these, and blowing gaskets. Mine was blown to bits and had two huge cracks on the manifold near the mounting flange with the turbo. I found a low mileage one to replace but even this had a tiny hairline crack. A proper cool down procedure for this one!

[pablo 0]

wow I removed mine in 45 mins on the 205

[Guest Kidmans]

wow I removed mine in 45 mins on the 205

 

 

From pictures i have seen of a 205 installation, the engine sits further forward so there is significantly more space to get the turbo out from the top. I chose to upgrade my turbo at this stage as i'm not pulling the engine out for any other reason, its a hell of a job on an Activa.

[jonnyturbo 3]

from what i have seen a hybrid t25/28 with a 1.9gti cam or catcam in is a good place to start and they maybe if you want to go all out you can go aftermarket management, dp manifold, t3 turbo forged pistons etc and get some good power gains, check sound of silences build thread as he had a 8v turbo in his 205 running some decent bhp and had a t3 hybrid fit on the standard mani.

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=100495

 

the turbo in my 306 sits so far back the turbo has made a dent in the bulk :S

[Guest Kidmans]

from what i have seen a hybrid t25/28 with a 1.9gti cam or catcam in is a good place to start and they maybe if you want to go all out you can go aftermarket management, dp manifold, t3 turbo forged pistons etc and get some good power gains, check sound of silences build thread as he had a 8v turbo in his 205 running some decent bhp and had a t3 hybrid fit on the standard mani.

 

http://forum.205gtidrivers.com/index.php?showtopic=100495

 

the turbo in my 306 sits so far back the turbo has made a dent in the bulk :S

 

 

Looks like a great thread! Interesting to see that size of turbo on the standard manifold. 230-240bhp must of been amazing in such a light car and shows the potential of the engine.

 

For mine though, i need subtle mods that wont take away the originality of it. I need to get the fuelling checked once the boost is set how i want. The stock ECU throws a wobbly if the boost gets too close to 14psi so around 12psi will be a good limit which should be ok on standard injectors.

[pablo 0]

yeah Ill be aiming for the same myself. Bigger injectors/manifold etc is going to need management

 

I did notice I have a non std cam though (as it doesnt have the little crescent bit at the pulley end. No idea what cam it is but the car made 155bhp @ 4psi. Goes like a rocket at a bar too.

[bales 1]

from what i have seen a hybrid t25/28 with a 1.9gti cam or catcam in is a good place to start and they maybe if you want to go all out you can go aftermarket management, dp manifold, t3 turbo forged pistons etc and get some good power gains

 

If you are sticking with the standard manifold then you have to stick to having a rebuilt original turbo, but given that the exhaust side of it is the most restrictive part and you can't do a huge amount with it you would be better off with a different manifold, the 205 parts / TT style one is good enough.

 

A 1.9gti cam will not work well as it has too much overlap, either a DKZ cam or a xsi cam will be more suited.

 

To be honest by the time you have spent all the money on tuning the 8v with fancy manifold / turbo's and aftermarket ecu's you may aswell just turbo a 16V given the costs involved.

[jonnyturbo 3]

If you are sticking with the standard manifold then you have to stick to having a rebuilt original turbo, but given that the exhaust side of it is the most restrictive part and you can't do a huge amount with it you would be better off with a different manifold, the 205 parts / TT style one is good enough.

 

A 1.9gti cam will not work well as it has too much overlap, either a DKZ cam or a xsi cam will be more suited.

 

To be honest by the time you have spent all the money on tuning the 8v with fancy manifold / turbo's and aftermarket ecu's you may aswell just turbo a 16V given the costs involved.

 

 

I got told by a few people that the 1,9gti cam is more happier then the turbo cam as its extremely laggy, where i said hybrid t25/t28 im talking about the standard turbo as its what iam doing got a quote for around £550ish for hybrid t25 with t28 housing 360 bearing.

Inlet is also a restriction on these engines iirc but yes the exhaust is terrible i couldnt believe it when i saw it. will the TT fit on the 2.0 8v turbo? i have heard of this before but couldnt remember if its possible.

 

im running 0.8 bar on my engine and the only thing letting it down is the dturbo clutch slipping but im putting that down to it being on its way out. but like bales said for what you spend on the 8v engine you could turbo a 6 engine but its all down to preference

[Guest Kidmans]

I could expand on this thread very easily, for example i have heard the XSi inlet manifold is a straight fit, and is meant to flow better. Would like to look at a slightly bigger throttle body because it is a little on the small side.

[jonnyturbo 3]

one of the main problems with the engine is that noone wants to spend money on it to see what power they can gain or what other parts from different engines fit and will give better flow etc... would love to do a bit of trial and error but im too poor

[pablo 0]

agreed after paying for a turbo rebuild Im loathe to spend another penny on the car. In saying that its now smoke free

[rapidcossie 0]

problem is that if you alter anything like inlet mani etc it will really need remapped to see gains etc

[danpug 1]

It depends how much power you want. I don't think theres any doubt these engines are capable of silly power if you want it. It seems they get plenty of power from just upping the boost even with the std inlet/exhaust.

[petert 591]

and shows the potential of the engine.

 

I don't think it has much potential at all. All you're doing is forcing in air/fuel to overcome the poor flow rates of the 8V head. Which of course is fine, provided you're prepared to spend money on forged pistons to handle the high boost necessary.

[pablo 0]

tbh if youre getting close to 200bhp with minimal work thats going to be good enough for most people. More than that maybe its not the best option.

[Tom Fenton 1,542]

I use the NA cam in my 1600 8v turbo, it works very well, but the boost threshold is higher than it would be with the turbo cam, this is purely down to the overlap. However I am personally willing to make this trade off as it helps the engine breathe higher up the rev range rather than it falling flat on its face at 5000rpm. Also bear in mind that with smaller displacement I do not suffer this "restriction" from the exhaust manifold that everyone talks about. As for forged pistons, I've been running 1.25bar on standard XU5 NA pistons for 4000miles so far. As long as you keep the charge temps sensible and make damn sure its not detting then they seem to live OK thus far.

Edited October 24, 2009 by Tom Fenton

[Guest Kidmans]

I don't think it has much potential at all. All you're doing is forcing in air/fuel to overcome the poor flow rates of the 8V head. Which of course is fine, provided you're prepared to spend money on forged pistons to handle the high boost necessary.

 

 

Does it really flow that badly for an 8 valve? Its not the worst out there. In comparison to a 16valve head, it wont flow ultimately as much, but i've known 8 valve turbocharged engines make very good power with the right turbo and components (my other car is 240bhp on high boost and has a terrible non crossflow heron head)

 

Has anyone experience of the standard pistons breaking or is it just poor tuning i.e whack the boost up and expect standard management to cope? Forged pistons are not bullet proof either if the engine isnt mapped properly.

 

 

I would be very happy with a genuine 200bhp/220lb ft, enough to get the car moving! Any engine can be tuned it just depends how deep your pockets are...

Edited October 24, 2009 by Kidmans

[jonnyturbo 3]

poor tuning i.e whack the boost up and expect standard management to cope?

 

answered your own question there imo fella.

 

someone off club-306 has a xantia and hes changed his turbo to a Mitsubishi TD04HL-15G used in Volvo 850 and Saab 900 with everything else standard this is the power / mods

 

 

Mods: Mitsubishi TD04HL-15G turbo @ 0,9bar, 3" downpipe -> 2,5" end, freeflow airfilter.

 

RR'd at 204hp and 263nm

 

 

he modified the standard exhaust manifold for the new turbo to fit, next hes going for better injectors and vems management!

 

i might follow him on this if it works out good.

[Guest Kidmans]

Tried looking at the thread on that forum but i'm not paying 6 quid to look at one topic... Might be an idea to mention to the forum member about FCF (Frenchcarforum) where its mainly Xantia owners on there who would be interested to hear about his project.

 

I'm sure the standard pistons are able to cope with well chosen mods unless they were made of chocolate... that isnt bad power at all for such low boost and its a good 50bhp up on standard figures.

[Henry Yorke 269 3 Cars]

I would be interested to know if anyone has come across cracked exhaust manifolds on these, and blowing gaskets. Mine was blown to bits and had two huge cracks on the manifold near the mounting flange with the turbo. I found a low mileage one to replace but even this had a tiny hairline crack. A proper cool down procedure for this one!

There are 2 designs of turbo, an early and a later one as the early ones were prone to cracking the housings. I have not heard of manifolds cracking before on these, infact probably quite the opposite due to the fact they are pretty heavily cast that you can port them slightly (I think Tom did on his).

[jonnyturbo 3]

never heard of that before henry. can you tell by looking at the turbos because i have 2 but not sure which turbo is from which engine (xm or xantia) lol. different codes maybe? i also have 2 manifolds and no cracks in either, maybe you got unlucky 2 times kidmans .

 

this is his car kidman incase u ever see it on a forum

Edited October 24, 2009 by jonnyturbo

[Guest Kidmans]

There are 2 designs of turbo, an early and a later one as the early ones were prone to cracking the housings. I have not heard of manifolds cracking before on these, infact probably quite the opposite due to the fact they are pretty heavily cast that you can port them slightly (I think Tom did on his).

 

 

2 designs of turbo or 2 designs of manifold? I've had two turbos in my possession recently, both were immaculate at 65k and 117k, no cracks anywhere.

 

The turbos were both late, from 99 and 2000 cars. My 2000 car manifold was quite bad.

 

 

 

I'm not sure why it got so bad, as the turbo is quite well supported so i'm ruling out flexing, it has to be extreme heat build up and poor cool down procedure in the past as i've always been quite strict with this to prolong turbo life. The Xantia has a huge heat shield over the top of the turbo which must retain heat too. I would do away with the shield but the turbo is too close to the bulkhead for comfort.

 

Here's a picture of my hybrid, i had to remove the DV assembly as clearance was an issue on the fuel pipe feeds.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have seen that silver Xantia before, an Activa V6 owner posted some videos of it. Sounds quite fruity

[pablo 0]

you dont have a spare turbo outlet pipe do you? The one attached to the red samco?